# Ruby and Gender (Was: A Mascot...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [August 24, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690 "2008-08-24T07:12:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/1 "2008-08-24T07:12:29Z")
On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 12:28 AM, David M. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > > this energy into real issues, like why we as a community have not > > under-represented, among programming languages? We’re talking about a very > > small niche of an already male-dominated field. If the answer to this question is No, you’re implying that Ruby is no worse than the overarching ‘male-dominated field’, and therefore this issue is irrelevant. In this case, you’re basically saying that we can get away with ignorant behaviour because it is the norm. I believe we can do better than that. If the answer to this question is Yes, you’re implying that Ruby is especially bad in an already miserably unbalanced field. In that case, are you prepared to be part of the solution to that problem? I hope so. But seriously, in a male-dominated field, waiting for females to speak up is about the same as claiming that if your grandma boycotts Walmart, they’ll eventually shut down. It is absolutely correct that we are not qualified to know what is the best way to solve this problem – women with an interest and a passion for solving this problem will need to lead the way, if it is ever to work. However, it is absolutely wrong to assume that we are absolved from recognizing that the problem exists, simply because we can’t solve it on our own. There is no requirement for all Ruby programmers to be feminists. Simply remembering that we’re not hanging out in a men’s locker room will put us farther along than some other communities, and will be a big step in the right direction. -greg ---
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2008, 10:22am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/2 "2008-08-24T10:22:30Z")
It comes to a surprise for me, but I could not have said this better myself. Well spoken chief Gregory. Robert – [http://ruby-smalltalk.blogspot.com/](http://ruby-smalltalk.blogspot.com/) There’s no one thing that’s true. It’s all true. ---
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/3 "2008-08-25T06:47:35Z")
On Sunday 24 August 2008 00:07:41 Gregory B. wrote: > If the answer to this question is No, you’re implying that Ruby is no > worse than the overarching ‘male-dominated field’, and therefore this > issue is irrelevant. Actually, no, I’m arguing that it seems silly to attack this issue in Ruby specifically, if it’s an issue with the larger field. Unless you’re implying that some community (as a community) needs to step up and get it right, as an example to everyone else? > If the answer to this question is Yes, you’re implying that Ruby is > especially bad in an already miserably unbalanced field. In that > case, are you prepared to be part of the solution to that problem? Depends what that entails. I’m not about to go door to door or anything, but if I’m doing anything offensive, let me know. If I’m not part of the solution, I want to at least make sure I’m not part of the problem. > But seriously, in a male-dominated field, waiting for females to speak > up is about the same as claiming that if your grandma boycotts > Walmart, they’ll eventually shut down. Given that there are females on this list, I’d think the probability is a bit higher, especially given such an open invitation to discuss the matter. If it wasn’t clear already, that is an invitation. I want to know what you think. ---
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 7:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/4 "2008-08-25T07:15:04Z")
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:40 AM, David M. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > and get it right, as an example to everyone else? > I’m suggesting as individuals, we should try to do better. But if you > require a major shift in the science and technology field to start > doing your part, so be it. -greg ---
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 7:28am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/5 "2008-08-25T07:28:31Z")
On Monday 25 August 2008 00:22:09 David M. wrote: > Off-list, as this is getting a bit offtopic… …whoops. My mail client is not doing well with the concept of “reply-to-one” vs “reply-to-all”. ---
**Author:** ![naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e47774/32.png) [@naething](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/naething)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/ruby-and-gender-was-a-mascot/146690/6 "2008-08-25T07:26:45Z")
Off-list, as this is getting a bit offtopic… On Monday 25 August 2008 00:10:20 Gregory B. wrote: > I’m suggesting as individuals, we should try to do better. But if you > require a major shift in the science and technology field to start > doing your part, so be it. I never said that. I think I’m doing alright. Again, if there’s something specific I should be doing differently, let me know. If it’s about ruby-chan, you’ll note I was equal opportunity about it – I didn’t protest the “naked man” idea, either. Is the concept of sex (or merely nudity) that much of a barrier? (And is that implying anything about a female attitude towards sex?)