On 16 Ιούν, 23:45, Adam P. [email protected] wrote:
70 messages in and the topic becomes clear: entertain me with 7-letter
words.
What becomes clear is this: who are the trolls.
.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Ilias L. [email protected]
wrote:
What becomes clear is this: who are the trolls.
Your bad English is showing: Troll. Singular.
–
Phillip G.
A method of solution is perfect if we can forsee from the start,
and even prove, that following that method we shall attain our aim.
– Leibnitz
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Ilias L.
[email protected]wrote:
What becomes clear is this: who are the trolls.
That is the second time you implied I was a troll. Even after I told you
directly that I am not a troll. I don’t understand why you would do
this.
You don’t know me. I did nothing but try to help you and yet you repay
my
kindness with libel? This defamation will not stand!
On 16/06/2011 21:59, Mike M. wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Ilias L.[email protected]wrote:
What becomes clear is this: who are the trolls.
That is the second time you implied I was a troll. Even after I told you
directly that I am not a troll. I don’t understand why you would do this.
You don’t know me. I did nothing but try to help you and yet you repay my
kindness with libel? This defamation will not stand!
I would throw some legal threats at him. Look at his previous posts if
you’re not sure how.
Myself, I’m still waiting to see when we’re all getting sued for
libelling him…should be exciting.
On 16 Ιούν, 23:28, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:
On 12/06/11 05:35, Ilias L. wrote:
relative ‘lib/alter’ #
“involve”, reminds me “include” (which I would use naturally, but it’s
used to describe “mixin”)
After reviewing some dictionaries, I like the term “involve” even more
than “include”.
I leave the trolls now alone to discuss my English skills and to
theorize about my job interviews and whatever other personal things
they may find. They’re trolls, don’t be to hard in judging them.
Time for some episodes of serials!
.
Ilias. You will never leave us alone. Will you?
On 16/06/2011 21:55, Ilias L. wrote:
70 messages in and the topic becomes clear: entertain me with 7-letter
words.What becomes clear is this: who are the trolls.
I really wish I could be there when you go for a job interview, or
attempt to bid on a contract and they recognise your name. I guess the
archives for list this (or anywhere you have infected) would be the best
resume ever…for warning the employer. Maybe that’s already happened
and this is misplaced vengeance.
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 04:35:21AM +0900, Mike M. wrote:
and ill-tasting?
I think the actual reason for it was to follow a naming convention akin
to namespace management. The namespace is “require”, and “relative” is
the extension of functionality within that namespace, so we end up with
“require_relative”. This is similar, in effect, to the way a Require
library might be extended by a Relative library, yielding a name like
“Require::Relative”. In this case, however, it is a method name, and
not
a library name, so it is called “require_relative” rather than being
called “Require::Relative”.
My friends, I have the answer:
alias ilias require_relativeI sincerely hope my suggestion, a single word with 7 characters or
less, can help bring some closure to this topic.
Unfortunately, anyone who was not privy to the thread trolled into
existence by Ilias would not get the reference, and it would serve no
mnemonic value. If, however, you think this “problem” does not actually
need to be solved for anyone not already aware of this thread, I guess
your proposal is perfect.
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Ilias L. [email protected]
wrote:
A creative Off-topic-Troll.
You’ll made a career on this list!
Feel free to leave. Go with God, but go.
–
Phillip G.
A method of solution is perfect if we can forsee from the start,
and even prove, that following that method we shall attain our aim.
– Leibnitz
On 16 Ιούν, 22:08, Joe P. [email protected] wrote:
end
He can go through each one and find what he likes.
You’re welcome.
Ah!
A creative Off-topic-Troll.
You’ll made a career on this list!
The “Trollish Medal of Honor” goes to the self-proclaimed “Ruby T.
Police”.You are the ones which are “trolling” (off-topic, hijacking threads,
personal nonsense, ridiculous and endless babbling subjecting an
individuals personal writing style).But I start to believe that finally this is the ruby community
(because until now, I saw only 2 people intervene, with not more than
3 messages).
.
Ilias L. wrote in post #1004718:
This is a simple Request for Comments.
Scenario:
require_relative ‘lib/alter’
require ‘alibrary’Some project manager complains about “require_relative”, and asks you
to find a one-word alias.Which name would you select and for what reasons?
Requirements
must:
- one word
optional:
- ideally a 7 letter word
.
Greetings, Ruby talkers!
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m Carl, a project manager from
Milwaukee.
I was just sitting in my cubicle today. You know, managing some
projects. When it struck me that I really need a way to require a
file. Now, now, I know what you’re thinking “why, Carl, just use
require!” And I’m onto your game there, see that requires a file by
checking the $LOAD_PATH, but I need to require a file that isn’t in the
load path. All I really know is its position relative to the file in the
project I’m managing.
I did some research on the Google, and found there is this method called
“require_relative”. Now, I know what you’re thinking, “just use that”,
but this project is a safari of self discovery, a peyote laced ritual of
disregard for “best”, “good” or even “well, it’ll do” practices. So you
can’t affect it in any way, that’s why I’m asking for your help. See, I
want something completely different, that way anyone who looks at my
project won’t be able to tell what it’s doing, and they’ll have to hire
me to come manage it some more.
RFC: What do you guys think about tacos?
Anyway, you can imagine my delight when I ran across this thread. “What
luck” I mused to myself. Unfortunately, my requirements – and these are
hard requirements (I am a project manager, after all) – aren’t
compatible with the OP. I need it to be exactly 8 characters long, not
7. Also, the third character must be a vowel. Doesn’t really matter
which one.
I started to try and find a name myself, but then I figured “why read a
dictionary when I can delegate?” (you can see why I’m so good at my
job). So I came here.
Go ahead and take 10-15 minutes, each of you, and think of four or five
words that fit my requirements, then post them back here so I can tell
you why they won’t work.
- Carl
Carl P. wrote in post #1005805:
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m Carl, a project manager from
Milwaukee. I was just sitting in my cubicle today.
Hi Carl - it’s good to see another project manager on this channel. I’d
stop around your cubicle but Derby is a long way from Milwaukee.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2011 04:51:19 PM Ilias L. wrote:
On 16 , 00:36, David M. [email protected] wrote:
[…]I’ve read everything, but I’ll not comment.
Do me a favour, please.
Let me think… no. You haven’t even been cooperative when I have been
trying
to give you the best answer to your question, by at least providing
enough
context so that I understand why it’s a real problem. And it gets more
personal from there.
Can you please try to find one word (ideally with 7 chars),
independent of you think about the need.Just as an exercise.
As “just an exercise”, it’s a pointless waste of time. At best, it might
enhance my vocabulary, which doesn’t need the help. It also doesn’t look
like
fun. About the only other reason I’d do it as “just an exercise” is as a
favor
to you, and given your conduct so far, replying to you is already a
favor.
What I would be happy to do is discuss why this is needed, and
how/whether to
get it included into the core, or what a good name might be outside of
your
artificial one-word-7-char constraint.
But I’m not going to jump through hoops just because you say so.
I’d normally refuse to do so even for people I respect.
On Thursday, June 16, 2011 04:35:44 PM Ilias L. wrote:
I leave the trolls now alone to discuss my English skills and to
theorize about my job interviews and whatever other personal things
they may find. They’re trolls, don’t be to hard in judging them.
I can’t resist…
Remember this, Ilias?
On Monday, May 23, 2011 05:35:26 AM Ilias L. wrote:
I hope you are aware that you have already crossed moral and legal
lines.
[…]
I hope that the professionals within this group will intervene at some
point, if the “attacks” on my person continue.
And then:
On Monday, May 23, 2011 07:00:30 AM Ilias L. wrote:
You may want to research for “Defamation” / “Defamation of Character”.
Your English skills aren’t a problem; after all, Matz has good but not
flawless English also. Your conduct is… well, I suppose we can now add
“hypocritical” to the list.
On Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:58:33 AM Phillip G. wrote:
“He is obsessed by the minutiae of syntax and apparently uninterested
in actually writing programs - he needs to invent some `perfect’
language before he can do anything, and he’s starting with the syntax.
It seems quite likely that he’s just trying to avoid doing anything at
all by endlessly fiddling with syntax.”Now that sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
Indeed it does, and this is probably why I respond to him as much as I
do,
because I started out the same way.
This is going to be a long one. I’ll try not to tell this story more
than
once, because it’s so long, and borders on actually being offtopic.
I wanted a language which was “fast enough”, where “fast enough” meant
“at
least as fast as Java, and better if it can approach C++”, which
compiled to
portable bytecode, preferrably bytecode for VMs people are likely to
have
(Java or .NET) but a new VM would be acceptable, could run in 32-bit or
64-bit
modes, had flexible syntax with minimal verbosity, was extremely dynamic
semantically but ran as fast as static code, handled unicode well, had
good
multiprocessing primitives (like Erlang)…
The list goes on. And on. And on.
I rejected Ruby at first because it was “too slow”, and because I didn’t
see a
way it could be much faster, especially because I didn’t quite
understand the
difference between symbols and strings. Also, it runs from source, and
didn’t
seem to have any good compilers – at the time, I thought I wanted to do
game
development, and while I wanted my game to be almost automatically
portable
(compile once, run anywhere, so I don’t have to convince anyone to let
me make
a Linux version), I also didn’t want to actually ship source.
While I suppose I had a good rationale for almost every question I
asked, I
followed a very similar pattern to Ilias. I’d get annoyed when people
would
answer my real question instead of the one I asked, because then we’d be
arguing about architecture, not realizing how much I had to learn about
that.
I would also wander from group to group – I’m not sure I ever made an
appearance on Ruby-Talk directly, but I suspect I hit the IRC channel at
some
point. I was really excited about Perl6 before it really was anything
resembling an actual language. I tried Squeak, and rejected it because
64-bit
support was experimental, and it seemed that it might be difficult to
port
software between 32-bit and 64-bit, and even if it would work perfectly
eventually, the amount of work it was taking them to make a 64-bit
Squeak VM
suggested that either the language was too difficult to port or the
community
was too small to react to these kinds of changes in technology.
Basically, I spent my teenage years like this. I would often be tempted
to
reinvent various wheels, and I still am.
But when it came down to it, when I really had to, I could program. It
started
off really sloppy, and I actually still occasionally support programs I
wrote
as a teenager. Still, I was able to get things done, at first mostly in
Perl,
just little things, avoiding any project big enough that it would
warrant The
Perfect Language.
The turning point was probably my first programming job, at a startup.
For the
first time, I was forced to work with other people, and to actually
program
roughly 8 hours a day, every day. For the first six months or so, it was
entirely JavaScript, running on HD-DVDs. For the next six months or so,
it was
mostly Ruby – Blu-Ray won, but we took our Rails backend for the HD-DVD
stuff
and adapted it into a music widget.
The second time through, I saw a lot more of Ruby’s brilliance. Plus,
the
performance had improved significantly, to the point where it was still
common
knowledge that “Ruby is Slow”, but I could no longer see any major
design
decisions which made Ruby pointlessly slow – any decisions that would
tend
to make implementations slow weren’t just carelessness, they were
deliberate
tradeoffs between performance and programmer productivity.
I had to learn, the hard way, that there is no “perfect” language. While
I can
think of some things I wish some language did that no languages do yet,
I no
longer believe that there could ever be a language which is semantically
“better” than all other languages in all ways. One thing many people on
this
list will be familiar with is Ruby vs JavaScript – and I have to say,
there
are tons of things I miss about each in the other, and some of them are
mutually exclusive. I like that every interaction with an object in Ruby
is
actually sending it a message (a method call, usually), but that’s
incompatible with JavaScript’s idea that objects are just hashes of
methods
and values.
That, and I actually learned to program.
The biggest change in my thinking now is that, when I was a teenager
asking
the kind of questions Ilias does, I wasn’t speaking from experience
where a
given construct actually bothered me. It just bothered me from some
idealistic
standpoint which had no connection to any program I have ever or will
ever
write. These days, when I complain that (for example) autoload didn’t
actually
call the system require, I actually do have a good reason for wanting to
intercept the behavior of autoload.
That is, I’ve gone from being an idealistic, dogmatic, theoretical
programmer
to being an actual, practicing, empirical programmer. It just took me
five or
ten years, and I probably made some enemies along the way.
So as rude and arrogant as he is, and as little as he deserves (or
wants) my
pity, it’s kind of painful for me to see Ilias making the exact same
mistakes
I did, and then grew out of – and frustrating when he refuses to hear a
word
of it.
Hopefully this is useful, or at least interesting. Thanks for your
patience,
whoever’s actually read this far. At the very least, now you see why
it’s so
hard for me to actually not feed this troll.
On Jun 16, 2011, at 23:49 , David M. wrote:
[…the actually interesting bits…]
So as rude and arrogant as he is, and as little as he deserves (or wants) my
pity, it’s kind of painful for me to see Ilias making the exact same mistakes
I did, and then grew out of – and frustrating when he refuses to hear a word
of it.Hopefully this is useful, or at least interesting. Thanks for your patience,
whoever’s actually read this far. At the very least, now you see why it’s so
hard for me to actually not feed this troll.
Yeah… but…
% curl -s http://legacy.lazaridis.com/resumes/lazaridis.html | grep -i
years
(not that I believe Ilias)
http://legacy.lazaridis.com/resumes/lazaridis.html
o Specialities
– Abstract Product Management
Wicked or what!
unsubscribe
On 17 , 11:59, Ryan D. [email protected] wrote:
On Jun 16, 2011, at 23:49 , David M. wrote:
[…] - (story of Mr. Masover’s live, which I’ve not read)
So as rude and arrogant as he is, and as little as he deserves (or wants) my
pity, it’s kind of painful for me to see Ilias making the exact same mistakes
I did, and then grew out of – and frustrating when he refuses to hear a word
of it.[…the actually interesting bits…]
Hopefully this is useful, or at least interesting. Thanks for your patience,
whoever’s actually read this far. At the very least, now you see why it’s so
hard for me to actually not feed this troll.
Wow, this (off-topic, off-context, my-personal-experiences-to-others-
by-brute-force) Troll is really a special one.
Get serious, Mr. Masover.
The only troll you feed is yourself.
And it seems that I make you very hungry.
(not that I believe Ilias)
$ CopyAndPaste -shttp://lazaridis.com/244.html
25 years - IT Business, Solving Technical Problems Abstractly
15 years - Software Developement
10 years - Digital Electronic Design & Product Management
05 years - Public System Analysis (Open Source Domain)
.
On 11 , 20:35, Ilias L. [email protected] wrote:
Which name would you select and for what reasons?
Requirements
must:
- one word
optional:
- ideally a 7 letter word
My own suggestions didn’t pass the requirements.
I order the list
involve ‘lib/alter’ # 2011-06-16 by Sam D.
locally ‘lib/alter’ # 2011-06-11 by Rob B.
uniload ‘lib/alter’ # my
request ‘lib/alter’ # my
include ‘lib/alter’ # my
relative ‘lib/alter’ # my
Original situation of headers
require_relative “lib/baselib”
require “sinatra”
Use of “involve” results in very clean headers:
involve “lib/baselib”
require “sinatra”
Applying the change:
module Kernel
alias involve require_relative
end
Btw: I am the project-manager (on my own project), and as I’m alone
for now, I had to fulfil the role of the executing project-member as
well (posting this RFC here).
This thread gives additionally some valuable insights subjecting the
topic “trolling” and “trolls”, uncovering some “trouble-makers” of
comp.lang.ruby (or ruby-talk).
Many thanks to the very few people which managed to stay in-topic and
in-context.
Time to close this thread.
.