# Rails and Enterprise Applications **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [January 25, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183 "2008-01-25T22:11:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/1 "2008-01-25T22:11:16Z")
Hi Everyone: My company is looking to migrate one of their enterprise-class products to Ruby on Rails, and there are some questions from the highest levels of management about what we’re doing. So, my question to the group is, has anyone migrated existing enterprise-class applications to Ruby on Rails? If so, what was their experience like? What questions did C-level management have? How were they answered? What compromises had to be made? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. - Jeff S. ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/2 "2008-01-25T22:14:13Z")
On Jan 25, 2008 1:10 PM, Jeff S. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > were they answered? What compromises had to be made? > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. > > - Jeff S. > > > Generally you’ll find that once you migrate to Rails, your code will be a lot simpler, easier to maintain, and allow for more rapid changes. However it’s trivial to put the enterpriseyness back into your app with [http://agilewebdevelopment.com/plugins/acts\_as\_enterprisey](http://agilewebdevelopment.com/plugins/acts_as_enterprisey) Pat ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/3 "2008-01-25T23:32:19Z")
Can you provide a specific example of an enterprise application where Rails improved your life? What did Rails improve? What did Rails struggle with? - Jeff ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/4 "2008-01-25T23:35:19Z")
Rails works for nearly anything I’ve come up against, but there are three areas where you will struggle: 1. Legacy database schemas will threaten your sanity if you let them. 2. Its web service interfaces outside of REST are lacking (enterprise to many is a mess of SOAP and WSDL trash). If you can get over that, then it’s a great way to expose services. 3. Deployment in a high scalability setup will require some expertise. If you can overcome those hurdles, then, in my experience, Rails works. –Jeremy On Jan 25, 2008 5:31 PM, Jeff S. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > > > enterprise-class applications to Ruby on Rails? If so, what was their > > > your app withhttp://agilewebdevelopment.com/plugins/acts\_as\_enterprisey > > > Pat – [http://www.jeremymcanally.com/](http://www.jeremymcanally.com/) My books: Ruby in Practice > **[Ruby in Practice](https://www.manning.com/books/ruby-in-practice)** > > Like Ruby itself, Ruby in Practice will make you more productive. The book shows you practical techniques and strategies for small projects and large-scale environments. A cookbook-style reference, it gives you concrete examples of systems... My free Ruby e-book > **[Site not found · DreamHost](http://www.humblelittlerubybook.com/)** > > The owner of this domain has not yet uploaded their website. My blogs: > **[Site not found · DreamHost](http://www.mrneighborly.com/)** > > The owner of this domain has not yet uploaded their website. [http://www.rubyinpractice.com/](http://www.rubyinpractice.com/) ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/5 "2008-01-26T07:09:04Z")
My complete “answer” > **[When the C-LEVEL(CTO,CEO,CFO) ask so why should we use Rails](http://mentalpagingspace.blogspot.com/2008/01/when-c-levelctoceocfo-ask-so-why-should.html)** > > Ok Mr. Big CTO, why shuld we use RAILS? A question that was recently asked in the Ruby forums. So having done a few C-Level jobs, I thought ... ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/6 "2008-01-26T03:23:36Z")
Hi Jeff I’ve done a few C level posting. (CTO and Founder), including Nasdaq listing) So it depends on the questions: 1. Is it going to be around a long time - Yes - Ruby itself has, and Rails has hit 2. Plus recognition from major software firms. (Oracle offered class on it on the Shanghai Training Session,), oracle has support. Major media companies are using it. Other MNC are using. Trading(As in stock, on wallstreet) are using it. Look at the “books” available. Need one every week. Look at the number of web articles. By every metric its everywhere. 2. Is training available? Yes, on multiple fronts. Also fresh java grads tend to pick it up easier. 3. Does it marry with my “enterprise” systems. Now this one is interesting. Ruby can marry to just about anything, so thus “rails” can. I am just finishing a “marriage” between Unify and Rails. The original applicaiton is over 15 years old, and the data is still worth millions. Of course I “moved” the data over to oracle. (With ruby). I’ve also did “bridges” between applications. 4. Is it secure? If its running on “Linux” would be my answer. Look at the security guide. Put a https proxy(Nginx) in fromt. 100x more secure than windows. 5. Is it scalable. Big question. But in a short answer, yes yes yes. For our users, 3000-4000 is max user count. I even was helping a friend with handling million plus user bases. Hardware is cheap, with nginx, mongrel clusters, and good hardware its falling off a log. (If your public hosting, even a single server can handle your average load"). 6. Can I get consultants? Yes. Look at the tavnav guys for one. There great. You name the rest, and I’ll answer. [mentalpagingspace.blogspot.com](http://mentalpagingspace.blogspot.com) is my blog. ---
**Author:** ![sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@sprsquish](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sprsquish)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/rails-and-enterprise-applications/127183/7 "2008-01-26T10:20:40Z")
I’m totally agree with Jeremy. I joined in March 2007 an enterprise where it had been decided : - Build a Portal with RoR with Web 2 Features - Build functional screens over a legacy database , in order to webify their Client/Server applications. The main problem i would say is how you sell RoR to your management. In my enterprise, the architect, at the beginning of this project, did only demos to the management based on : - Generation of model, migration (whereas half of the project woould based on a Legacy database), and scaffold. Main people of the team (manager included), who were used to build C/S applications with Oracle Forms (a quite productive tool in the C/S domain), where quite enjoyed after seeing that in three command lines you could have a running (but not definitive) application. Finally they didn’t understand the there would code to write (even if it is well more concise than Java) So be very careful when you sell RoR : do that after having well considered all the functional needs and the environment constraints (especially when using legacy datamodel). We exactly had problems on the three main points from Jeremy: 1. Legacy database schemas will threaten your sanity if you let them: Hacks have been done to create Oracle Views over the “old” denormalized tables. Right for consultation, but not easy for Edit/ Create. And productivity, as shown in the demo, decreased a lot. The management was always saying the development was not productive enough 2. Its web service interfaces outside of REST are lacking (enterprise to many is a mess of SOAP and WSDL trash). If you can get over that, then it’s a great way to expose services. We Should integrate our application with Third Party (Oracle) Products, especially one, for the CMS, accepting POST/GET of document using SOAP Web Services. The architect should port to Ruby Oracle Java classes from the CMS Library, and to send SOAP requests, should write from scratch inside is Ruby code all the SOAP structure (Header, Body) 1. Deployment in a high scalability setup will require some expertise. Many setups had been chosen before the current one : Apache/Mongrel, then the choice has been made on LiteSpeed. Today we’ve got performances issues - but more on the ActiveRecord side…the application is connected to an Oracle database: We remark after an idle time of 1 minute, about ten opened ruby-oracle connections are dropped. Then, after an activity (click a link then call an action, executing an operation in database), 10 connexions are created (so quite long)… So the project finally has 50% failed, especially for the functional screens, that should be plugged on the Legacy Data, A Tool from Oracle has replaced RoR for that : Oracle Application Express (database centric, PL/SQL powered). We kept RoR for the portal for two reasons : - We did many Ajax tricks so RoR saves the day for this - Portal has its proper datamodel, created from scratch and accepting RoR conventions. It was my point of view, after a first RoR experience in the enterprise.