# Radiant Browser Support -- Drop IE6? **URL:** \ **Category:** Radiant CMS\ **Created:** [July 19, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509 "2008-07-19T20:40:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/1 "2008-07-19T20:40:34Z")
I have a question for all the Radiant users out there… Would anyone be left out if Radiant failed to support IE 6? I am working on some UI/CSS improvements for Radiant which require hacks and workarounds to support this browser. It can be done but I’m not sure it’s worth it. IE 8 is already in beta and IE 7 is freely available for all but Windows 2000 – and that OS is 8 years old (benefits of a public education right there, baby). And Win2k can easily install Firefox, Opera, or Safari so it’s not like they’re stuck. Thoughts? -Chris P.S. Please don’t waste bandwidth with Microsoft or IE bashing (I’m not interested in why everyone should use ). I just want to know whether it would be a problem for Radiant admin users to need IE 7+. ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/2 "2008-07-19T21:49:36Z")
I’m of the opinion that IE6 is going the way of the dinosaur. Unless your client absolutely needs it, I would avoid bending over backwards for it. IE6 support on the front-end is a different story (alas you may need at least minimal support for it – still has approximate 25% market share), but I think it’s reasonable to require modern browsers for the admin UI. Sean ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/3 "2008-07-20T00:07:45Z")
I say release without IE6 support and then create a “Legacy Admin UI” extension to add support for IE \< 7, WebTV and other fringe user agents. Adam ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/4 "2008-07-20T02:00:04Z")
Ha! Radiant for Web-TV… -Chris ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/5 "2008-07-20T04:36:14Z")
I vote we drop IE6 for the admin side. Cheers, Marty On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Chris P. ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/6 "2008-07-19T20:48:11Z")
I would dance a god damn jig. Seriously though, I think public sites still need to support IE6. But gated admin areas that have a small number of users, I think its fine to declare IE7 the minimum. And, if we’re lucky, the rest of the internet will follow suit. -Alex > **[Beautiful Pixel](https://beautifulpixel.com/)** > > A log of random code experiments and semi-useless thoughts from some software developer named Alex... ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 11:57am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/7 "2008-07-20T11:57:01Z")
On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 20:35 -0600, Marty H. wrote: > I vote we drop IE6 for the admin side. I agree with the hatred for IE, but I for one promise my clients to support the current version of a browser and one version previous. Currently, that means IE 6 and 7. In many corporate environments IE 6 is still the only browser allowed in the office. I know it’s asinine, but it’s true. While I certainly don’t want to try and mandate which versions of browsers that an open source project supports, I would like to suggest that IE 6 not be dropped until version 8 is official. If you do kill support for IE 6 could you please make an entry in the wiki describing some of problems you were having with IE and mention where/how it might be a problem even if you don’t make the fix. That way those of use that still need to support v6 can do so without any further involvement from the core group. Of course that’s just my $0.02. ~Nate ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/8 "2008-07-21T13:11:27Z")
Before there is more discussion on this, would it be possible for us to get a list of problems that have arisen due to support for IE6? I don’t really have a frame of reference for how much work it is to maintain support. I personally think the best course of action would be to extract any IE6-specific support in an extension that way those that need it can have it with future versions of Radiant and help maintain it themselves. Regards, Josh ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:18am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/9 "2008-07-21T10:18:39Z")
Chris P. wrote: > Would anyone be left out if Radiant failed to support IE 6? I vote against dropping IE6 support. My rationale is a sad one: many enterprise clients in the Netherlands (think governments, education institutes, healthcare, and the like) typically have a locked-down and out-of-date workstation. Though they aren’t likely to run Radiant for their main web presence, many smaller internal groups can benefit from Radiant. Only recently did one of my government clients upgrade from Windows 2000 and IE6 to Windows Vista and IE7. Many more will follow suit, but for now I would suggest keeping IE6 support around for one more major release. Keeping it around for one more major release also provides room for giving a deprecation announcement so developers can phase it out. And who knows, somebody might actually pick up maintainership if he feels a pressing need… – Roderick van Domburg > **[De domeinnaam Nedforce.nl is te koop.](http://www.nedforce.nl)** > > Deze mooie domeinnaam kan al over een paar minuten van jou zijn. Betalen gaat eenvoudig en vertrouwd via iDEAL. Direct na de betaling ontvang je de verhuiscode per e-mail en kun je aan de slag. ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/10 "2008-07-21T14:43:00Z")
On Jul 21, 2008, at 8:01 AM, John W. Long wrote: > For now I think it is appropriate to drop support for IE6. We can > certainly accept a patch back to add it in latter, but I think it is > more important to get the new interface implemented than to quibble > over the details. > > Thanks for being willing to work on this Chris. I agree. But an IE 6 extension sounds like a good idea. Chris, I’m trying to clear up my schedule to get more involved in the new UI. Have you forked radiant-prototype or do you gave a public location for ideas that you’re working on? ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/11 "2008-07-21T14:02:28Z")
For now I think it is appropriate to drop support for IE6. We can certainly accept a patch back to add it in latter, but I think it is more important to get the new interface implemented than to quibble over the details. Thanks for being willing to work on this Chris. – John L. [http://wiseheartdesign.com](http://wiseheartdesign.com) ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/12 "2008-07-21T17:32:30Z")
On Jul 21, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Chris P. wrote: > Time permitting, I’ll have it up by Wednesday. Great! Send a message when you do, I’m eager to help. ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/13 "2008-07-21T16:39:36Z")
Hello all. Thanks for the input. As John mentioned, I am beginning work on the new Radiant UI, and my main goals are: 1. It needs to function correctly 2. I want the CSS/Markup to be as simple (understandable) as possible as this is open source 3. I want to produce something that won’t inadvertently break (maintainer removes one line to change something only to learn that that line was necessary as a browser hack) Browser limitations/variations work against all of these (I’m currently fighting with Firefox). I’m trying to find a happy (read: “sane”)-medium and I wanted people’s take on things. The consensus seems to be: ``` * Most could live without IE6 (no current users requiring it) * Many/some could foresee a case where IE6 might be needed ``` So, I agree with John & Jim that we should shoot for IE 7+ support with the ability to add in IE 6 as an extension. Besides, I’m working on some of the harder parts now and it’s looking like PNG support may be the only limitation (I had other ones in mind when I asked this question but I think those may be working themselves out). Jim G. wrote: > Chris, I’m trying to clear up my schedule to get more involved in the > new UI. Have you forked radiant-prototype or do you gave a public > location for ideas that you’re working on? It didn’t make sense to fork John’s Radiant Prototype as that is really a complete prototype of the existing UI. I have made a copy of it and will be hosting it on GitHub here shortly (I’m trying to get the \_layout.haml file working so that the nav will be nailed down before releasing). Time permitting, I’ll have it up by Wednesday. -Chris ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/14 "2008-07-21T18:04:35Z")
Chris P. wrote: > Would anyone be left out if Radiant failed to support IE 6? I vote to drop IE6 to coincide with the new Radiant UI release and move IE6 support to an extension. - Dave ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/15 "2008-07-21T21:49:31Z")
Please complain to Microsoft – they’re the only ones who can do something about it. Sean ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/16 "2008-07-21T21:42:27Z")
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:04 PM, David P. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > Chris P. wrote: > > > Would anyone be left out if Radiant failed to support IE 6? > > I vote to drop IE6 to coincide with the new Radiant UI release and move > IE6 support to an extension. I vote the same. And where can I register my extreme disgust for IE’s (lack of) CSS support, anyway? – Tim G. ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/17 "2008-07-21T22:27:39Z")
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Chris P. \< removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid\> wrote: > So, I agree with John & Jim that we should shoot for IE 7+ support with the > ability to add in IE 6 as an extension. Besides, I’m working on some of the > harder parts now and it’s looking like PNG support may be the only > limitation (I had other ones in mind when I asked this I always use pngfix.js to get IE6 to work with transparent png files and it works like a charm. Find it here: [http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/index.htm](http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/index.htm) ~Nate ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/18 "2008-07-21T21:50:42Z")
On 21-Jul-08, at 12:42 PM, Tim G. wrote: > I vote the same. > > And where can I register my extreme disgust for IE’s (lack of) CSS > support, > anyway? You could try the IE blog but /dev/null will be more effective. Actually I suspect that when IE8 comes out the won’t be nearly as craptacular as its ancestors and almost reach respectability. Passing ACID 2 goes a long way in my books (by comparison to IE6). ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/19 "2008-07-21T22:32:21Z")
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Tim G. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > And where can I register my extreme disgust for IE’s (lack of) CSS support, > anyway? If you are talking about IE6 then you have no place. And as for IE7 you need to know that the current Internet Explorer team is completely new as Microsoft disbanded the IE team when it looked like they won “The Great Browser War.” There are no IE6 team members on the current IE team, so things will only get better from here. I think once IE 8 is released into the wild we (designers/developers) can finally start abandoning IE 6 in earnest. Be thankful we don’t need to support 5.5 any more. ;^) ~Nate ---
**Author:** ![mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mahadewa](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mahadewa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509/20 "2008-07-21T22:36:27Z")
I can get PNGs to work just fine with IE 6 via pngfix.js or just using IE’s proprietary filters in the CSS. But you can’t do any fancy positioning – just left/top aligned images for backgrounds. There are other ways to skin that cat, so there should be a solution there somewhere. I just don’t want to have to support or maintain it. There will be other issues that crop up before we’re done, I’m sure. -Chris [Next page](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/radiant-browser-support-drop-ie6/143509.md?page=2)