# Panagrams (#86) **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [July 7, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515 "2006-07-07T17:03:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/1 "2006-07-07T17:03:29Z")
The three rules of Ruby Q.: 1. Please do not post any solutions or spoiler discussion for this quiz until 48 hours have passed from the time on this message. 2. Support Ruby Q. by submitting ideas as often as you can: [http://www.rubyquiz.com/](http://www.rubyquiz.com/) 1. Enjoy! Suggestion: A [QUIZ] in the subject of emails about the problem helps everyone on Ruby T. follow the discussion. Please reply to the original quiz message, if you can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= by Darren Kirby One thing that interests me are word puzzles and language oddities. One such example is the self-documenting panagram. If a panagram is a sentence that uses every letter in the alphabet, then a self-documenting panagram is a sentence that enumerates its own letter count. Simple enough, but what if we state that the letter count must be spelled ie: ‘twenty-seven’ instead of ‘27’. Now we have a challenge. A while back I wrote a script in Python that finds these sentences. Today I rewrote it in Ruby and it found me this sentence: ``` Darren's ruby panagram program found this sentence which contains ``` exactly nine 'a’s, two 'b’s, five 'c’s, four 'd’s, thirty-five 'e’s, nine 'f’s, three 'g’s, nine 'h’s, sixteen 'i’s, one ‘j’, one ‘k’, two 'l’s, three 'm’s, twenty-seven 'n’s, fourteen 'o’s, three 'p’s, one ‘q’, fifteen 'r’s, thirty-four 's’s, twenty-two 't’s, six 'u’s, six 'v’s, seven 'w’s, six 'x’s, seven 'y’s, and one ‘z’. My script does have its problems, and I would love to see what kind of code the Ruby experts could come up with to find self-documenting panagrams. There is a lot more info on self-documenting panagrams at this address: ``` http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tanaka/GEB/pangram.txt ``` ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/2 "2006-07-07T17:14:11Z")
So is it “pangram” or “panagram”? ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/3 "2006-07-07T17:21:31Z")
Nevermind, answered my own question with the dictionary: pangram. ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/4 "2006-07-07T17:24:51Z")
On Jul 7, 2006, at 10:13 AM, Matthew M. wrote: > So is it “pangram” or “panagram”? > > > There is a lot more info on self-documenting panagrams at this > > address: > > > > ``` > > http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tanaka/GEB/pangram.txt > > > > ``` Good catch, I didn’t even notice the name discrepancy. Pangram does appear to be the correct term. James Edward G. II ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/5 "2006-07-07T17:25:03Z")
> So is it “pangram” or “panagram”? ``` The word is "pangram". Some people misspell it as "panagram", ``` probably due to an association with the word “anagram”, another word puzzle favorite. ``` - Warren B. ``` ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/6 "2006-07-07T19:37:14Z")
Is it a spoiler if we post a resulting pangram (no code)? I got one in: real 1m17.089s user 1m8.444s sys 0m2.492s on an athlon 64 300+ Brian ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/7 "2006-07-07T19:41:06Z")
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 02:34:23AM +0900, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > Actually, I lied. Almost correct, but at least one number is off… ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/8 "2006-07-07T20:19:19Z")
On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:34 PM, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > Is it a spoiler if we post a resulting pangram (no code)? Not at all. Please do. James Edward G. II ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/9 "2006-07-07T20:39:04Z")
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 03:18:26AM +0900, James Edward G. II wrote: > On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:34 PM, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > > > Is it a spoiler if we post a resulting pangram (no code)? > > Not at all. Please do. How about: rephorm@boru ~/code/ruby/quiz/pangram $ time ruby pangram.rb \> p real 0m28.613s user 0m27.474s sys 0m1.000s rephorm@boru ~/code/ruby/quiz/pangram $ cat p a ruby quiz solution found this sentence enumerating four a’s, two b’s, two c’s, three d’s, thirty-four e’s, nine f’s, three g’s, eight h’s, sixteen i’s, one j, one k, three l’s, two m’s, twenty-five n’s, fifteen o’s, one p, two q’s, eleven r’s, twenty-nine s’s, twenty-five t’s, nine u’s, four v’s, nine w’s, three x’s, six y’s, and two z’s rephorm@boru ~/code/ruby/quiz/pangram $ ruby verify.rb p Sentence passes! It looks like the exact wording of the prelude has a large effect on how quickly a solution can be found. Brian ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/10 "2006-07-07T21:01:45Z")
On 7/8/06, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 03:38:36AM +0900, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > > > It looks like the exact wording of the prelude has a large effect on how > > quickly a solution can be found. > > … and a good bit of luck rolling the rand() dice 🙂 And here’s to you, Mr. Robinson… martin ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/11 "2006-07-07T20:48:59Z")
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 03:38:36AM +0900, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > It looks like the exact wording of the prelude has a large effect on how > quickly a solution can be found. … and a good bit of luck rolling the rand() dice 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/12 "2006-07-07T22:48:31Z")
James Edward G. II wrote: > On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:34 PM, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > > > Is it a spoiler if we post a resulting pangram (no code)? > > Not at all. Please do. > > James Edward G. II This is the pangram from simon, there are four a’s, one b, one c, one d, thirty-two e’s, seven f’s, four g’s, nine h’s, eleven i’s, one j, one k, two l’s, four m’s, twenty n’s, eighteen o’s, two p’s, one q, thirteen r’s, twenty-seven s’s, eighteen t’s, six u’s, four v’s, six w’s, three x’s, four y’s, one z. Time: 8.39s cheers Simon ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/13 "2006-07-07T23:07:14Z")
On Jul 7, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Simon Kröger wrote: > This is the pangram from simon, there are four a’s, one b, one c, > Simon Just for the sake of nitpicking, seems like the following ending would be more appropriate: “…three x’s, four y’s and one z.” Now if only I could figure out how to actually generate a working sentence… ☹ -Mat ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/14 "2006-07-07T21:20:31Z")
On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:39 PM, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid wrote: > > Brian > > Actually, I lied. Almost correct, but at least one number is off… I was wondering where you can get an athlon64 300+ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/15 "2006-07-07T23:29:33Z")
Mat S. wrote: > On Jul 7, 2006, at 4:47 PM, Simon Kröger wrote: > > Just for the sake of nitpicking, seems like the following ending would > be more appropriate: > “…three x’s, four y’s and one z.” more like this? This is a pangram from simon, it contains six a’s, one b, two c’s, two d’s, thirty e’s, eight f’s, three g’s, seven h’s, fifteen i’s, one j, one k, one l, four m’s, twenty-four n’s, sixteen o’s, two p’s, one q, nine r’s, twenty-nine s’s, twenty-one t’s, three u’s, five v’s, seven w’s, three x’s, five y’s and one z Time: 6.172s > Now if only I could figure out how to actually generate a working > sentence… ☹ > -Mat well, I’m not sure if it is possible for every start of a sentence, perhaps try another. (any thoughts from the mathematicians out there?) cheers Simon ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/16 "2006-07-07T23:35:53Z")
Simon Kröger wrote: > This is a pangram from simon, it contains six a’s, one b, two c’s, two > d’s, thirty e’s, eight f’s, three g’s, seven h’s, fifteen i’s, one j, > one k, one l, four m’s, twenty-four n’s, sixteen o’s, two p’s, one q, > nine r’s, twenty-nine s’s, twenty-one t’s, three u’s, five v’s, seven > w’s, three x’s, five y’s and one z > Time: 6.172s Sorry for replying to myself, i thought this might be interesting: This is a pangram from simon, it contains six a’s, one b, two c’s, two d’s, twenty-six e’s, ten f’s, four g’s, five h’s, fifteen i’s, one j, one k, one l, four m’s, twenty-four n’s, eighteen o’s, two p’s, one q, nine r’s, twenty-nine s’s, eighteen t’s, six u’s, three v’s, seven w’s, four x’s, four y’s and one z Time: 22.562s It’s another solution for the same beginning. cheers Simon ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 6:35am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/17 "2006-07-08T06:35:27Z")
Have you tried with different sentances? ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/18 "2006-07-08T01:09:07Z")
This is really crazy. Either people have optimized things a whole lot better than me (not unlikely, I haven’t made any real attempts at optimizing things), or I am using a bad algorithm. I didn’t time the solution: a ruby quiz solution found this sentence enumerating four a’s, two b’s, two c’s, three d’s, thirtyfour e’s, nine f’s, three g’s, eight h’s, sixteen i’s, one j, one k, three l’s, two m’s, twentyfive n’s, fifteen o’s, one p, two q’s, eleven r’s, twentynine s’s, twentyfive t’s, nine u’s, four v’s, nine w’s, three x’s, six y’s and two z’s …but it took my program 8018361 iterations. Is it the optimization or the algorithm I got wrong? /Christoffer ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/19 "2006-07-08T06:50:51Z")
On Jul 7, 2006, at 5:27 PM, Simon Kröger wrote: > well, I’m not sure if it is possible for every start of a sentence, > perhaps try another. (any thoughts from the mathematicians out there?) I think the method by which you get there plays a big part too. I ran my current version for about 15 minutes yielding no correct result. And my preamble is taken from the original links sent to the list as description. Feels like it would be cheating to read and mimic the perl implementation on the site. -Mat ---
**Author:** ![bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bbazzarrakk](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/bbazzarrakk)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515/20 "2006-07-08T18:37:04Z")
Christoffer Lernö [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) writes: > Is it the optimization or the algorithm I got wrong? > I agree that Simon must be using a different, better algorithm. I > think I’m using the same one that you are, (the randomized Robinsoning > described on the linked page, which is what the perl program there > uses) and with the same prefix get an answer in 16990348 iterations > (so twice as long) and it takes just over 83 minutes. I /really/ don’t think that the difference between this and the sub-10-second versions is just luck. I’m going to run the program in a loop in the background today just to check the luck angle - if every run takes on the order of an hour to produce output, then clearly there’s another approach we’re missing. [Next page](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/panagrams-86/97515.md?page=2)