# My old message to this list got removed. please tell me if I do something wrong? - ActiveRecord inc **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [January 4, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/my-old-message-to-this-list-got-removed-please-tell-me-if-i-do-something-wrong-activerecord-inc/196559 "2008-01-04T00:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![casper\_the\_ghost](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@casper\_the\_ghost](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/casper_the_ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/my-old-message-to-this-list-got-removed-please-tell-me-if-i-do-something-wrong-activerecord-inc/196559/1 "2008-01-04T00:15:31Z")
Hi, I noticed ActiveRecord uses some join queries to perform :include stuff. While this certainly fixes the N+1 problem, I’m wondering about the amount of sparse data this generates. Example: Task has many TodoItems Both Task and TodoItem only have a name to keep things simple. Now, when I do : Task.find(:all, :include =\> :todo\_items) it executes: SELECT tasks.“id” AS t0\_r0, tasks.“name” AS t0\_r1, todo\_items.“id” AS t1\_r0, todo\_items.“name” AS t1\_r1, todo\_items.“task\_id” AS t1\_r2 FROM tasks LEFT OUTER JOIN todo\_items ON todo\_items.task\_id = tasks.id which will transfer back: 1|task 1|1|item 1|1 1|task 1|2|item 2|1 1|task 1|3|item 4|1 1|task 1|4|item 3|1 2|task 2|5|item 1|2 2|task 2|6|item 2|2 2|task 2|7|item 3|2 2|task 2|8|item 4|2 3|task 3|9|item 1|3 3|task 3|10|item 2|3 3|task 3|11|item 3|3 3|task 3|12|item 4|3 As you can see, all fields for tasks are repeated for every todo item. While in this small example this wouldn’t matter at all, my guess is that it _will_ matter more when there are more fields to a task, more items, or deeper nested joins. If I want to join data from say, 5 tables, all task data will get repeated a lot of times. While using mysql through a socket interface, I think it’s neglectable (since queries that large will be quite slow anyway), but when connection to an external sql server, all this sparse data has to get transferred over the network. Of course it’s still a lot faster than not using the include, since looping over tasks would then generate: SELECT \* FROM tasks SELECT \* FROM todo\_items WHERE (todo\_items.task\_id = 1) SELECT \* FROM todo\_items WHERE (todo\_items.task\_id = 2) SELECT \* FROM todo\_items WHERE (todo\_items.task\_id = 3) (n+1) queries which is worse. But how about this: tasks=Task.find(:all) todos = TodoItem.find(:all, :conditions =\> { :task\_id =\> tasks.map {| x| x.id} }) what will generate: SELECT \* FROM tasks SELECT \* FROM todo\_items WHERE (todo\_items.“task\_id” IN (1,2,3)) which is 1 query per table. of course after this you’d have to find a way to ‘link’ the retrieved todos to the corresponding tasks, but I guess activerecord would be able to handle this (since it does it for the current, left-outer-join behaviour as well). Now, I’m no database expert so I might be overlooking something. Also I haven’t really done any benchmarks. But like I said, it looks to me as if the current ActiveRecord behaviour is quite sparse for transfering/parsing the data as soon as you 3 or 4 tables, with long rows, and many “children”. Am I overlooking something? Any thoughts on this matter would be nice. Thanks, Mathijs ---
**Author:** ![casper\_the\_ghost](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@casper\_the\_ghost](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/casper_the_ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/my-old-message-to-this-list-got-removed-please-tell-me-if-i-do-something-wrong-activerecord-inc/196559/2 "2008-01-04T01:29:15Z")
:include can be a performance issue in some cases and not in others. In the case you noted, it’s probably fine. However, in a case where you do this: p = Post.find(1, :include=\>[:comments] That could be bad. A 6000 word post with 100 comments would bring back a LOT of data. In this case, two separate queries would be better. p = Post.find(1) comments = p.comments However, have you timed it under load? You really don’t know how _bad_ something will be until you test it. Don’t optimize prematurely, as they say. You have ActiveRecord there to help you get something done fast. Sometimes it’s fast and efficient, and sometimes not. At that point you can look at using some plugins that fix this, or use find\_by\_sql, or look at some of the advanced :join and :select options for finders in the API. On Jan 3, 2008 5:14 PM, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid)