# Must one be a web page designer to make use of RoR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [March 3, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281 "2006-03-03T16:02:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sarmstrong2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281/1 "2006-03-03T16:02:02Z")
Hey guys, I’m new to the world of web site development. Although I’m in the process of learning RoR, I’m not a graphics artist nor a web developer or web site designer. With that being said, does anyone have any suggestions for tools to use to create the actual interface for a web app based on a RoR framework? Obviously the default output of RoR is fine for development, but now that I need to create a _real_ user interface - ie. beautiful layout, pretty graphics, intelligently flowing navigation, etc. - I’m stuck. I guess I could hire someone part-time just to create the actual UI, but then that would not make me a “complete” web app developer. I have no natural talent for drawing, graphics, etc. What’s a person in my situation to do? I’m relatively new to programming, and (almost) everything in RoR makes sense to me - but I feel like my inability to draw and create graphics is holding me back from being a complete RoR developer. Any suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sarmstrong2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281/2 "2006-03-03T16:06:14Z")
[www.openwebdesign.org](http://www.openwebdesign.org) … – G. ---
**Author:** ![sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sarmstrong2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281/3 "2006-03-03T16:12:17Z")
On 03 Mar 2006, at 16:02, Steve Armstrong wrote: > navigation, etc. - I’m stuck. I guess I could hire someone part-time > just to create the actual UI, but then that would not make me a > “complete” web app developer. I have no natural talent for drawing, > graphics, etc. > > What’s a person in my situation to do? I’m relatively new to > programming, and (almost) everything in RoR makes sense to me - but I > feel like my inability to draw and create graphics is holding me back > from being a complete RoR developer. > > Any suggestions? Well, to be honest, you have the choice of either - learn webdesign yourself: look around at how other people do it, get a feel with it and then go out and by the CSS Mastery book ([http://www.cssmastery.com/](http://www.cssmastery.com/)), it’s really good. From my personal experience, I have always found hand coded CSS to be a lot better than what a WYSIWYG editor calls a CSS layout. - get an open source template and expand on that, but I haven’t found any that are really in the league of a professional design, they’re a good starting point, but that’s about it - hire someone to make you an initial design, then do the CSS work yourself based on his/her design - just let someone else do it, which is probably going to save you a lot of money as your application grows, if you’re not a designer, you’re going to waste tons of time on simple things. I think a lot of people on this list will agree with me when I say a real cool web app always consists of a good programmer together with a good designer, it’s hard to have both at the same time (but that doesn’t mean the programmer can’t have a bit of a design talent or the other way around). Best regards Peter De Berdt ---
**Author:** ![sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sarmstrong2)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281/4 "2006-03-03T17:34:14Z")
Steve, You must absolutely learn CSS, and have a basic toolbox alongside your Rails editor. I’d recommend : - “Head First HTML with CSS & XHTML” [Head First HTML with CSS & XHTML [Book]](http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfhtmlcss/) - Firefox + the Web D. plugin [https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=60&application=firefox](https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=60&application=firefox) The Web D. plugin helps you look into a page css, change it and see the change live, etc… Alain ---
**Author:** ![sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/58f4c7/32.png) [@sarmstrong2](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/sarmstrong2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/must-one-be-a-web-page-designer-to-make-use-of-ror/76281/5 "2006-03-05T01:11:37Z")
Guys, I bought the Head First book today. Looks like I’ve got some reading (and learning) to do. Thanks for the advice. I’m on my way…