Mac OS X or Windows?

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Gareth Howells wrote:

FYI, Red Hat and Ubuntu are different distributions, based around different
approaches to Linux.

Linux is Linux but Ubuntu is free (as in cost) and Red Hat is not.

On 10 Mar 2008, at 15:15, Eno wrote:

FYI, Red Hat and Ubuntu are different distributions, based around
different
approaches to Linux.

Linux is Linux but Ubuntu is free (as in cost) and Red Hat is not.

… but Fedora is. Fedora is the community version of Red Hat, just
like OpenSuSE is the community edition of SuSE.

That said, i prefer Ubuntu over other distributions, but it is a
personal choice in the end.

Best regards

Peter De Berdt

----- Original Message -----
From: “rpflorence” [email protected]

Macs are piles of trash after a couple years.

What are you basing this on?

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Peter De Berdt wrote:

… but Fedora is. Fedora is the community version of Red Hat, just
like OpenSuSE is the community edition of SuSE.

Sure, but the OP was specifically talking about Red Hat…

I think your statement => “PC’s are about 1/2 the price of a mac for a
system with the same specs” is not correct…

15" macbook pro is $1990… Go to Dell and get the 15" xps with the
same specs and you are very close. (almost $1800) Thats not including
Vista pro. (or whatever they call it.)

The macbook is more expensive (just not 50% more) but you get a better
product.

Hi there, I thought I’d just add my 2c in this conversation because it
seemed like no one had any real evidence to give for each environment.

There are a few good reasons I thought one environment differs over
the next that I’ve had personal experience with:

Some things don’t run on windows (Background processing)

I’ve recently slowed in development of my rails app, and started
improving the performance. One thing I was going to do was to start
using BackgrounDRB to push long running tasks like report generation
or image processing to the background. Only, you can’t on windows. For
this reason I am going permanently move to either linux or a mac! This
point is probably my strongest, because there’s actually nothing I can
do about it if I want to use BackgrounDRB. I don’t know how many other
ruby plugins/gems there are out there that don’t run on windows, but
this is the only one I’ve found.

Some common things are annoying on macs (Image manipulation)

If you are planning on doing any kind of decent image manipulation,
most of what rails has to offer is wrappers for imagemagick.
Imagemagick (I’ve heard) is horrible to install on a mac. However,
from personal experience, it is a piece of cake on windows and linux
(if you use package management systems like on debian or ubunutu).
There are other image manipulation plugins (ImageScience) that don’t
use imagemagick, but last time I checked they could only create
thumbnails, and it couldn’t process as many file types.

Command Line, Development Environments, Speed etc.

First up, it seems like macs and linux are faster than windows for
running ruby code. In dunno why that is, just is. But, having said
that, I develop on windows and macs, and at times linux, and the ONLY
place I have noticed speed problems is while running my unit tests.

Development environments are everywhere. People on macs love textmate,
other people love aptana, or netbeans, or if they’re old school
something like vim or emacs… The thing is, development environments
aren’t the best reason to choose one or the other. There’s something
good on all environments, people like to just stick with what they
know.

People have mentioned command lines a lot (apparently you can’t use
one on windows?). I use command line on windows all-the-time. Every
command that you’d want to run for rails development from the command
line you can do in any operating system.

Ease of use

Windows and OSX are easy to use for anyone. Linux is easy to use for
seasoned geeks (no offence). So if you’re a noob (no offence), then
don’t choose linux right off the bat I guess…

From my experience with linux, some of the most annoying things was
that third party programs often don’t work, and if you’re not used to
linux, the problems definitely don’t solve themselves. I use ubuntu
and simple things were often broken - flash player was broken for
months, google notifier never worked, I switch monitors twice a day
(work and home) with different resolutions, that was just craaaaaazy.
I never quite got the hang of it… These are things I used every day,
all the time, so it drove me crazy (I don’t use linux GUI any more,
just command line).

Cost

If you’re strapped for cash, linux is the way to go. PC’s are about
1/2 the price of a mac for a system with the same specs, and linux is
free, windows is also needlessly expensive when there is linux out
there.

That’s my 2c! Correct me if anything I said was wrong :slight_smile:

Jonzo.

Yeah you’re probably right. I didn’t audit my post well enough! I was
looking at prices in NZ, a 15" macbook pro here is about 3.2k, and a
dell I’d been looking at a few weeks ago was about 2.3k (inspiron),
still not 50% though! Ha, I’ll just say that I was just rounding to
the nearest 50% :slight_smile: it’s actually about 70% the cost.

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:13 PM, heimdull [email protected]
wrote:


Jonathan

On 10 Mar 2008, at 21:46, Jonzo wrote:

If you are planning on doing any kind of decent image manipulation,
most of what rails has to offer is wrappers for imagemagick.
Imagemagick (I’ve heard) is horrible to install on a mac. However,
from personal experience, it is a piece of cake on windows and linux
(if you use package management systems like on debian or ubunutu).
There are other image manipulation plugins (ImageScience) that don’t
use imagemagick, but last time I checked they could only create
thumbnails, and it couldn’t process as many file types.

Image magick was as easy as port install ImageMagick for me. The
only thing that makes rmagick easy on windows is that there is a
prebuilt package, which is both a blessing and a curse. A while back
there was not up to date binary package for several weeks for example.
In general the fact that as a windows use you either need to rely on
prebuilt packages or need to have visual C++ (if you want your
extensions to run against the prebuilt ruby) or compile it all
yourself via cygwin is a pain.

Command Line, Development Environments, Speed etc.

People have mentioned command lines a lot (apparently you can’t use
one on windows?). I use command line on windows all-the-time. Every
command that you’d want to run for rails development from the command
line you can do in any operating system.

The windows shell has always seemed a bit horrible to me. but that’s
just my opinion.
The other thing is that last time I heard, all of rails core was using
a mac.

Fred

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008, Jonzo wrote:

People have mentioned command lines a lot (apparently you can’t use
one on windows?). I use command line on windows all-the-time. Every
command that you’d want to run for rails development from the command
line you can do in any operating system.

True but comparing the windows “shell” to a real shell in
UNIX/Linux/Macs
is like comparing a Ford Escort to a luxury Cadillac. Sorry, the Windows
“shell” is truly godawful.

Windows and OSX are easy to use for anyone. Linux is easy to use for
seasoned geeks (no offence). So if you’re a noob (no offence), then
don’t choose linux right off the bat I guess…

Yeah, clicking through a menu in Ubuntu is so much harder than clicking
through a menu in Windows or Mac. NOT.

I switch monitors twice a day
(work and home) with different resolutions

Why?

, that was just craaaaaazy.
I never quite got the hang of it…

…or never bothered to learn about.

That’s my 2c! Correct me if anything I said was wrong :slight_smile:

I just did :slight_smile:

Ha, another ColdFusion refugee…we need to create a support group!

I have used Mac, Linux and Windows for programming in RoR.

Believe me Mac is the best and Windows is the worst, as lots of gems and
plugins have issues on Windows.

That’s what we call a short and sweet reply.

Do let everybody know what you finally decide…

Hey Zok, just do what feels right to you.
Good luck,

-Conrad

True but comparing the windows “shell” to a real shell in UNIX/Linux/Macs
is like comparing a Ford Escort to a luxury Cadillac. Sorry, the Windows
“shell” is truly godawful.

This seems very opinion based… why? Personally I’ve never found a
rails-related command that you can use in a unix system that you can’t
use in windows. The only differences I have noticed is that you can
run unix specific commands like top or ps or something, which isn’t
really related to rails, and aren’t needed in windows.

However, unix does have very good security! You can’t do certain
naughty things without the sudo command, which on a server is great,
but I hate it on a development box because it just means that I have
to type the same command twice when I need it (definately not DRY). I
usually try to rid myself of as many barriers as possible on a
development box.

Yeah, clicking through a menu in Ubuntu is so much harder than clicking
through a menu in Windows or Mac. NOT.

Sure, the menu systems are pretty easy, I was more thinking of side
cases, like monitors for example. When you are configuring the
resolutions for your monitors you need to edit a config file. Hardly
something I’d leave up to my mother to do for herself.

I gave some examples of third party software didn’t work. What happens
now? You can’t ring support and complain, because unix users are
supposed to be smart enough to fix it themselves. You can be assured
that no one is running around frantically trying to fix it (like I
said, flash player was broken for months). No one is trying to fix it
because they expect people to fix it themselves, and frankly they’re
not losing any money by putting it off. So, how do you fix it? You get
the latest source, link it, compile it, etc. Would I expect my mother
to do that?

I switch monitors twice a day
(work and home) with different resolutions

Why?

I have a laptop, I like to connect it to a large external monitor when
I am using it for sustained periods of time, this is work and home,
and I have different sized monitors at each.

, that was just craaaaaazy.
I never quite got the hang of it…

…or never bothered to learn about.

This is true, I never learned about it. Still, I prefer not to have to
edit a config file every time I connect my laptop to a new monitor or
projector.

That’s my 2c! Correct me if anything I said was wrong :slight_smile:

I just did :slight_smile:

You did? When I said that I was inviting people to make constructive
points. Not just flame. Don’t be a hater man :slight_smile: