# Job offers/positions and searching for Ruby developers **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [May 27, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788 "2008-05-27T19:22:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/1 "2008-05-27T19:22:04Z")
I wanted to ask the more senior members of the group whether job postings and the like are frowned-upon here. It’s just a little difficult to find Ruby programmers in a general job searching. Alternatively, if anyone knows of some good sites to hire full-time on- site RoR developers, I would appreciate any advice. Difficulty: small company, don’t want to pay to trawl CareerBuilder and other such sites. ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/2 "2008-05-27T19:30:54Z")
On 27 May 2008, at 18:21, Clever N. wrote: > I wanted to ask the more senior members of the group whether job > postings and the like are frowned-upon here. It’s just a little > difficult to find Ruby programmers in a general job searching. As far as I’m concerned, go ahead ! (within reason obviously; a recruitment agency posting the same message everyday would be over the top). No idea how good it is for that, but workingwithrails allows users to flag themselves as ‘available for hire’ Fred ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/3 "2008-05-27T23:59:06Z")
> **[RubyNow: Ruby Jobs | Niche Ruby on Rails Jobs Board](https://jobs.rubynow.com/)** > > Find Ruby on Rails developers. Post Ruby jobs into the inboxes of active Rails developers today. RubyNow: the trusted Ruby Jobs board since 2005. [http://railspays.com/](http://railspays.com/) (UK) [http://jobs.37signals.com/](http://jobs.37signals.com/) that’s where I subscribe for job announcements. ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/4 "2008-05-28T02:15:48Z")
Clever N. wrote: > I wanted to ask the more senior members of the group whether job > postings and the like are frowned-upon here. It’s just a little > difficult to find Ruby programmers in a general job searching. > > Alternatively, if anyone knows of some good sites to hire full-time on- > site RoR developers, I would appreciate any advice. Difficulty: small > company, don’t want to pay to trawl CareerBuilder and other such sites. While there are certainly more of us than there were a couple of years ago, I think the numbers of Rails developers is still quite small compared to something like .Net or Flash or the like. I think that relative “scarcity” coupled with your belief that they need to be on-site is the root of your difficulty. Here’s to hoping that more and more hiring managers come to realize that programmers are typically not very good looking human beings; why do you want to look at them? To require them to show up in your building, in your city, is not good for them, and not good for you, and not good for the pretty people you have sitting around doing marketing and being receptionists, etc. 🙂 Physical togetherness does not promote better software. Not long ago I was part of a rag-tag group of developers operating well as a team despite locations in four different time zones around the planet. Please do yourself a favor and look into building a geographically dispersed but technologically connected group of development talent. We’re out here, and we’re easy to find, if you’re not limiting your search to one city. cheers, jp ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/5 "2008-05-28T02:25:07Z")
Jeff P. wrote: > programmers are typically not very good looking human beings; why do you > want to look at them? Darn, I thought one of the pros of Ruby was better looking programmers. [http://flickr.com/photos/46457493@N00/230535210/](http://flickr.com/photos/46457493@N00/230535210/) Tor Erik ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/6 "2008-05-28T16:50:33Z")
On May 27, 8:15 pm, Jeff P. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > While there are certainly more of us than there were a couple of years > ago, I think the numbers of Rails developers is still quite small > compared to something like .Net or Flash or the like. I think that > relative “scarcity” coupled with your belief that they need to be > on-site is the root of your difficulty. It is not a belief in the ideological sense, it is a necessity of our development model and our financial means, and the CEO’s wishes. > Here’s to hoping that more and more hiring managers come to realize that > programmers are typically not very good looking human beings; why do you > want to look at them? Accountability, personal relationships, and easier flow of ideas. > Physical togetherness does not promote better software. Not long ago I > was part of a rag-tag group of developers operating well as a team > despite locations in four different time zones around the planet. Not necessarily. However, pair programming, on-the-spot code reviews, and other programming practices I engage in pretty much necessitate it. Plus, it’s much easier if you are an actual programmer with no management above you to handle a single person in real-time than spending 90% of your time reviewing other’s work and simply acting as bookkeeper and specification clarifier (which is what I turned into, except for a critical part of the code no one outside the company was allowed to touch). I worked with a 10-person Ukrainian team before, and the code was OK, but at the end of it, we became dependent on them because we had no in-house programmers, and bad things ensued. > Please do yourself a favor and look into building a geographically > dispersed but technologically connected group of development talent. > We’re out here, and we’re easy to find, if you’re not limiting your > search to one city. I have nothing against what you are saying. But when you don’t have any venture capital (i.e. the company has to _gasp_ actually earn what it pays out every month), it’s tough to spend twice the money on a contract basis than for an in-house person. ---
**Author:** ![Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/0ea827/32.png) [@Clever\_N](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/Clever_N)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/job-offers-positions-and-searching-for-ruby-developers/138788/7 "2008-05-29T08:38:15Z")
Clever N. wrote: … > I have nothing against what you are saying. But when you don’t have > any venture capital (i.e. the company has to _gasp_ actually earn what > it pays out every month), it’s tough to spend twice the money on a > contract basis than for an in-house person. Ok, fair enough. Sounds like larger projects than I typically work on for one thing. > Accountability, personal relationships, and easier flow of ideas. > No sale on this, I’m afraid. It simply isn’t so. Accountability: If you have to watch them that close they aren’t worth hiring in the first place. No amount of watching will make a weenie work hard. At best you can get them to fake it and blow smoke up your backside. Relationships: Ten emails a day and an occasional phone call are all that’s needed for this. Easier flow of ideas: see above. Anyway, I respect your decision to keep it in house, I just hope it gets more common for people with medium to small developments to go the telecommute route. If ever there were a time and a technology and an endeavor where it makes sense, this is it. cheers, jp