# Is rails something I should get into?

**URL:** <https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969>\
**Category:** Rails\
**Created:** [October 20, 2006, 8:49am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969 "2006-10-20T08:49:13Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 8:49am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/1 "2006-10-20T08:49:13Z")

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I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do  
construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.  
I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end  
template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.  
So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails  
actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was  
talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point  
where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who  
builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is  
there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that  
my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?

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**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 11:26am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/2 "2006-10-20T11:26:00Z")

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daniel wrote:

> So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails  
> actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was  
> talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point  
> where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who  
> builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is  
> there anythigng I could get from rails

It’s always worth loarning new things - for fun, mental health,  
personal satisafction, and the option to move into different work areas  
as markets shift.

The fact that you’re here means you’re probably on top of your game as  
far as CSS and design goes, so you’ll have room for something else. I’d  
say it’s a good idea, if only because it will mean you’ll be able to  
integrate your styles with Ruby projects much more easily in future.

I think web-based designers should know a bit about coding, and  
web-based coders should know a bit about design. It makes it easier to  
work… Designes can be put together with code in mind, and code can be  
made sensitive to design needs.

> or is this just something that  
> my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?

Depends if your coder is of the ‘tried, tested and works’ mentality or  
the ‘WOW! New thing! Must play!’ mentality. I’m of the latter… ;^) (I  
wonder when I’ll get bored of Ruby and Rails? It’s taking longer than  
normal, I must say…)

There’s nothing to be scared of. Get a PDF of this…

[http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/title/rails/](http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/title/rails/)

…which takes you by the hands through from a virgin PC to having a  
shop application with cart and admin. If it’s not for you, you haven’t  
killed any trees finding out.

Ben

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**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/3 "2006-10-20T13:37:25Z")

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daniel wrote:

> I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do  
> construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.  
> I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end  
> template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.  
> So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails  
> actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was

Hi,

I’m moving in from the opposite direction. I have lots of programming  
experience (though not Rails, so far) but almost no “non-programming”  
design experience.

Perhaps we can help each other get started. I’ll help you get to know  
programming basics and object orientation principles and you teach me  
something about design, user interfaces and so on. I’m especially  
interested in all the subtle stuff that make the difference in the “Web  
2.0” style guidelines.

I also have a live server available for experiments which we can use.

Interested? 🙂

Jens

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/4 "2006-10-20T20:50:10Z")

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daniel wrote:

> I am not a programmer to the level I am reading about here but I do  
> construct the odd CSS based front end and the graphic design of sites.  
> I would do the design, slice up the graphics, plan the front end  
> template (HTML/CSS/JS) and build it without a WYSIWYG.  
> So I saw what was possible with scriptaculous and moved onto what rails  
> actually means and thus read more on the Rails wiki. Then there was  
> talk of command lines and databases and realised that this is the point  
> where I leave the picture. So my question is, as basically someone who  
> builds the front ends and leaves the databases etc to someone else, is  
> there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that  
> my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?

I’ve always considered myself a designer first as well. I sort of fell  
into scripting with PHP to do basic stuff for personal projects, and  
simply started to accumulate knowledge of languages, databases, etc. For  
having never taken a computer science or IT course in my life, I do  
okay. When I first started reading about Rails, I think I was attracted  
to the design and functionality I saw coming out of these “Web 2.0”  
pages, more than I was attracted to the actual framework.

Now that I’m almost finally done my first Rails apps, I can say that it  
really is a wonderful tool to have in your arsenal. Like I said, I’m not  
a programmer, so I always reached a point working in PHP where I’d feel  
like I was getting lost, burying myself under ugly hacks and in general  
being a victim of my own (lack of) logic. This happens far less with  
Rails. I have a long way to go before I can write complicated apps, but  
I feel Rails allows me to write clearer more concise code that I can go  
back and revise quickly when I decide I want to change things around (is  
this what Agile means?). I feel like Rails just does a lot of the heavy  
lifting for me, and doesn’t ask much in return.

If you’ve never coded before, Rails might be a bit daunting at first.  
But even with your Javascript experience, you might be able to dive into  
the basics. Understanding how objects work will be important, and I  
suggest you cuddle up to a good Rails books to hold your hand for a  
while.

Good Luck,  
Bryan

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/5 "2006-10-20T19:22:46Z")

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On 10/20/06, daniel [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote:

> there anythigng I could get from rails or is this just something that  
> my backend coder will one day say their going from php to ruby?

Using a plugin like MasterView with Rails allows one to use a designer  
to do the layout and styling while leaving the code to developers.  
This way each can focus on what they do best. And the designer can  
even update the xhtml friendly templates late in the project cycle  
rather than only at the beginning.

So that opens up many opions for pure non-developer web designers.

Of course if you would like to learn rails, do so, it is a fun way to  
develop web applications.

If I can answer any questions about MasterView I would be happy to.

Blessings,

Jeff B.  
Founder of MasterView project  
[http://masterview.org/](http://masterview.org/)  
[http://rubyforge.org/projects/masterview/](http://rubyforge.org/projects/masterview/)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 7:10am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/6 "2006-10-23T07:10:45Z")

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Thanks heaps for the responses (and offer) and I think I will have to  
delve into this a bit (my first aim is to look at the resources and  
links provided) and see where I go.  
Learning R. isn’t really where I wanted to direct myself - I am  
taking myself down the front-end (IA/UX) pathway of webdesign but with  
the quality of knowing (X)HTML/CSS/JS enough to build a front end quite  
well. As I mentioned, i got to ruby via scriptaculous and that appealed  
to me because it was just .js’s that I loaded to the server and then,  
just like CSS, referenced it in the HTML [1] - which fits exactly to my  
need to create engaging front end experiences. I will be looking into  
rails just to see if it can help that front end user experience but not  
really to be able to say to a client “I now build apps” - I don’t think  
that’s fair to all the great, dedicated programmers out there 🙂  
Thanks again to all the replies and I will probably take you up Jens  
just so I can work out where I would like to put Rails in my bag of  
knowledge.

[1] damn I hate how there is nothing like the CSS reference table for  
finding out how to use all the scriptaculous features and when what  
syntax is to be used in what circumstance - I’m not able to ‘read’  
complicated .js files too well.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 5:48am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/7 "2006-10-23T05:48:13Z")

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Daniel:

Even if you never master it, learning the database and web app  
backends behind your designs will help you immensly.

The first step is learning Ruby [http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/](http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/). What  
other programming languages have you used before?

```
* Learn to Program <http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/>
* Ruby in Twenty Minutes

```

[http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/](http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/documentation/quickstart/)

Rails is a pretty big beast, so once you get the hang of Ruby, might I  
recommend a web framework called Camping  
[http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/](http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/). With Camping, you can  
create web applications in one file. Like Rails, it uses ActiveRecord  
to connect to the database, so many of the things you learn how to do  
in Camping will be applicable to Rails.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@daniel](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/daniel)\
**Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/is-rails-something-i-should-get-into/72969/8 "2006-11-22T21:05:40Z")

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I am a front end designer that has started learning Ruby to expand  
current skill set and also be able to do create some of the functions I  
need for my sites.

I have actually started a few learning courses, first starting with the  
Ruby language itself, which I actually did through this book:  
Sams Teach Yourself Ruby in 21 Days  
Mark Slagell  
Sams, 2002, 560 pages ISBN:0-672-32252-8  
(via PDF)

Now I only made it to Day 15, but it gave me the foundation to start  
putting the pieces together. From there I went to:

Why’s Poignant Guide to Ruby  
[http://poignantguide.net/ruby/index.html](http://poignantguide.net/ruby/index.html)

Which is a little goofy in approach but it again is helping to solitify  
the language pieces.

Then I picked up “Agile Web D. with Rails” from my local  
library, and WAH-LAH it is actually making sense to me.

I am just following along as suggested in the book, and I have found it  
to be easy to grasp and it is actually all starting to make sense.  
Hey, I can almost understand some of the post here in this forum LOL.

Anyways, those are just a few of my suggestions.

Jessica