# How to work with a designer **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [March 14, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822 "2006-03-14T17:31:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/1 "2006-03-14T17:31:29Z")
I am considering trying Rails out on a small web project where I will be working with a designer. What is the typical workflow and relationship for this: 1 have the designer learn rhtml or 2 have the programmer take html mock ups and turn them into rhtml In the past I have used Django (also very nice), which has a fairly accessible (ala php) templating language. Thanks, David S. ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/2 "2006-03-14T17:46:54Z")
On 3/14/06, David S. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > I am considering trying Rails out on a small web project where I will be > working with a designer. What is the typical workflow and relationship > for this: > 1 have the designer learn rhtml > or > 2 have the programmer take html mock ups and turn them into rhtml My preference has always been to have the designer produce very clean, static, HTML. Then I’ll break that up into the various pieces that I need. I guess it depends on how technical the designer is. – James ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/3 "2006-03-14T18:43:38Z")
David S. wrote: > 1 have the designer learn rhtml > or > 2 have the programmer take html mock ups and turn them into rhtml Here’s my preference – start with a graphic designer who understands the mechanics of HTML page layout, and have them produce flat comps (ie, PSD files). Then the developer can take those and implement them as HTML/working pages. I think this approach allows the designer to focus on design, rather than worrying about technical details in the HTML – presumably that’s not their core competency anyway. It also saves the developer from having to rewrite poor HTML. The prerequisite is making sure the designer and developer have a good, close working relationship; breakdowns in the process usually come from poor communication over design goals and technical limitations. ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/4 "2006-03-14T19:19:02Z")
David S. \ writes: > Thanks, > David S. My recommendation would be to create temporary object per page that includes all fields needed for that page, this object is then passed to the view. Then the designer can simply place \<%= pageObject.field1 %\> …\<%= pageObject.field2 %\> etc in the middle of the HTML, rather than having to do any logic in view or reference multiple objects. These fields should contain all calculated values etc. Ville ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/5 "2006-03-14T19:39:45Z")
You might want to consider hiring a designer that is a css expert. With CSS, you can build highly designed sites and it can be designed after the structure is already formed. The developer would just have to output well structured html. You might want to look at: > **[Web Standards Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook (Pioneering Series):...](https://www.amazon.com/Web-Standards-Solutions-Handbook-Pioneering/dp/1590593812)** > > Web Standards Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook (Pioneering Series) \[Cederholm, Dan\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Web Standards Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook (Pioneering Series) Ville Maanpaa wrote: > David S. \ writes: > > > Thanks, > > David S. > > My recommendation would be to create temporary object per page that > includes all > fields needed for that page, this object is then passed to the view. > Then the > designer can simply place > \<%= pageObject.field1 %\> …\<%= pageObject.field2 %\> etc in the middle > of the > HTML, rather than having to do any logic in view or reference multiple > objects. > These fields should contain all calculated values etc. > Ville ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/6 "2006-03-14T19:46:33Z")
On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:39 AM, Chris B. wrote: > You might want to consider hiring a designer that is a css expert. > With > CSS, you can build highly designed sites and it can be designed after > the structure is already formed. > > The developer would just have to output well structured html. > > You might want to look at: > > [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590593812/102-7785155-3448109](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590593812/102-7785155-3448109) +1 The markup should be strictly independent of the design! All the designer should need to do to the .rhtml files would be to tweak class attributes and other minor changes for the purposes of identifying particular divs and spans. – – Tom M. ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/7 "2006-03-14T19:52:41Z")
On 3/14/06, James L. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > My preference has always been to have the designer produce very clean, > static, HTML. Then I’ll break that up into the various pieces that I > need. > > I guess it depends on how technical the designer is. This is what I like to do. There’s no real need to have designers work directly in the app, if you’re just hiring them to design a couple pages. Also, if they work on a running app then you’ll need to help them get Rails up and running on their machine, maybe teach them to use SVN, etc. Much easier to say, “Hey I need X pages” and let them go. On 3/14/06, shinji kuwayama [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > The prerequisite is making sure the designer and developer have a good, > close working relationship; breakdowns in the process usually come from > poor communication over design goals and technical limitations. This is the approach that I’ll be taking next time. The last project I worked on, I asked the designer up front if he could build the pages using CSS layouts, no tables. He said that wouldn’t be a problem. When he finished the design though, it had tables nested seven or eight layers deep! I would have been really pissed, but I loved the design, so I decided to just recode it myself. I don’t know HTML/CSS at all, so it took me about 8 hours to figure out how to do the layouts with CSS. I wasn’t pleased that I spent that time coding HTML, but I did learn a bit more about how to approach a project (either just get mockups as Shinji suggested, or make sure that the designer can actually write really clean HTML), and also have confidence that I can convert a design into clean HTML/CSS if necessary. Pat ---
**Author:** ![davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@davidstokar](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/davidstokar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/how-to-work-with-a-designer/54822/8 "2006-03-15T15:36:36Z")
All, thanks much for the help. Peace, David S.