Austin Z. wrote:
I have little nice to say about Cygwin when people bring it up as a
solution, because it IS NOT a “solution” on Windows. It’s a hack; a
workaround. It’s good to use when you absolutely must use Unix
software that the developers have been too damned lazy to actually
port the software to Windows.
Amen! But … it’s a boatload less expensive than Reflection X. 
If Matz, as usual, has a 1.8.6 release for Christmas (Matz?) I will be
recommending Curt use MinGW to compile Ruby for Windows.
As opposed to a cross-compile with GCC 4.1.1 on a Linux system? Just out
of curiosity, how is the Ruby on a MacOS machine compiled? Then again,
if we are helping Microsoft get VC8 “Ruby Ready”, should we be helping
MinGW too?
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Austin Z. wrote:
If Matz, as usual, has a 1.8.6 release for Christmas (Matz?) I will be
recommending Curt use MinGW to compile Ruby for Windows. The
discussions that are going on with Microsoft will be continuing with
the preferred target for the VC8 build being next year’s 1.9.1,
because I suspect it will take nearly that long to build the support
tools we need to make this work properly.
thanks for working on this and keeping us in the loop austin.
i’d like to volunteer to help get gsl and narray in the dist if a msys
build
comes to fruition - there are few hacks i had to make and it would save
someone some time if i could relate them.
it would be a huge boost to the science world if ruby came out of the
box with
a good matrix toolkit like narray and the vast array of scientific codes
that
is the gsl.
kind regards.
-a
[email protected] wrote:
kind regards.
-a
-
Yeah, if I can’t have narray into the core language, it ought to be
in the standard library.
-
Dang, ara, you’re gonna make me learn how to work SWIG on Windows,
aren’t you? 
Seriously, though, once I get all my RAMEAU magic working on its
birthplace, Gentoo Linux, I’d accept some help porting it to Windows and
Macs.
Speaking of which, the goals part of the RAMEAU overview is posted at
http://rubyforge.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/Rameau/Rameau.pdf?root=cougar&view=co
I’m expecting the first release “Christmas 2006”, to continue in the
fine Ruby tradition. I’m not planning to have GSL in the first release,
though, mostly because I don’t think I need it given that I’ll have R.
By the way, in RAMEAU, I’m trying to stay scripting-language agnostic.
The implementation will use/require Ruby for all the build automation
tasks, and all the test cases and examples will be written in Ruby, but
I don’t want to do anything that would rule out users with Perl, Python,
or Tcl/Tk skills using the package. SWIG makes that easy.
But Rake makes it agile and pragmatic.
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
- Dang, ara, you’re gonna make me learn how to work SWIG on Windows,
aren’t you?
SWIG works just fine on Windows without any sort of hocus-pocus.
Roy
On 10/25/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [email protected] wrote:
Austin Z. wrote:
I have little nice to say about Cygwin when people bring it up as a
solution, because it IS NOT a “solution” on Windows. It’s a hack; a
workaround. It’s good to use when you absolutely must use Unix
software that the developers have been too damned lazy to actually
port the software to Windows.
Amen! But … it’s a boatload less expensive than Reflection X.
If all you’re after is X, try Xming. Once I found that, I fully
removed Cygwin from my work system. I didn’t need the rest of the
crap.
If Matz, as usual, has a 1.8.6 release for Christmas (Matz?) I will be
recommending Curt use MinGW to compile Ruby for Windows.
As opposed to a cross-compile with GCC 4.1.1 on a Linux system? Just out
of curiosity, how is the Ruby on a MacOS machine compiled? Then again,
if we are helping Microsoft get VC8 “Ruby Ready”, should we be helping
MinGW too?
We’re not really helping them, yet. We’re telling them what we need
and cannot ourselves provide. We have other problems to deal with (a
lack of a distutils-like software). IIRC, MinGW doesn’t include GCC
4.1.1 at all, yet, even for cross-compiles. You’re stuck with GCC 3.4.
Because I’m considering how much time it would take to get what we
need, I am going to target Ruby 1.9 for a VC8 release.
-austin
On 10/25/06, Roy S. [email protected] wrote:
Austin Z. wrote:
If Matz, as usual, has a 1.8.6 release for Christmas (Matz?) I will be
recommending Curt use MinGW to compile Ruby for Windows. The
discussions that are going on with Microsoft will be continuing with
the preferred target for the VC8 build being next year’s 1.9.1,
because I suspect it will take nearly that long to build the support
tools we need to make this work properly.
I recall reading a bit ago of incompatibilities when building C
extensions with different versions of the C runtime library. Will
binary extensions break or was the fear overstated or misunderstood?
MinGW is (mostly) compatible with VC6. MinGW and VC6 are wholly
incompatible with VC7, VC7.1, and VC8 unless you do some voodoo which
may not always be possible.
In other words, they’ll break, but 1.9.1 is going to break some stuff
anyway. So it’s a good target and reduces the breakage until then.
-austin
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
on the same hardware?
Let me drag out my matrix benchmark and dual-booted (Win XP and Gentoo
Linux) Athlon XP laptop and see for myself!
Be back later, as they say in IRC!
OK … here we go. I actually had to re-install CygWin; I had deleted it
because I wasn’t using Windows on my laptop. By the way, speaking of
laptops, I want all of you at RubyConf to know that it has gotten over
the sadness it was feeling as a dual-booted Window and Linux machine
being surrounded by Macs.
From
http://rubyforge.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/MatrixBenchmark/athlon-xp-2000.log?root=cougar&view=co
cache size : 256 KB
Matrix of dimension 256 times its inverse = identity? true
137.598000 0.110000 137.708000 (137.768000)
Gentoo Linux Ruby
Compiled from source with GCC 4.1.1 -O2 -march=athlon-xp -fomit-frame-pointer
ruby 1.8.5 (2006-08-25) [i686-linux]
Matrix of dimension 256 times its inverse = identity? true
107.380000 0.010000 107.390000 (107.425632)
So, it appears that on this benchmark, the One-Click and CygWin
interpreters are equal!! But GCC 4.1.1 beat them both.
Back to RAMEAU.
On 10/25/06, Austin Z. [email protected] wrote:
If all you’re after is X, try Xming. Once I found that, I fully
removed Cygwin from my work system. I didn’t need the rest of the
crap.
I do agree Cygwin isn’t the best solution, and I know that VC6 is the
cause
of Ruby’s one-click slowness, but I was speaking in terms of which was
faster, and absent a native Ruby that is compiled with VC8, Cygwin is
twice
as fast at the current time.
On a different note, I’m delighted to find out about Xming! I hadn’t
heard
of it until now. I’ve got some checking out to do of it Thanks!
–
Robert W. Oliver II
President, OCS Solutions, Inc. - Web Hosting and Development
Toll-Free Phone - 1-800-672-8415
OCS Ruby Forums - http://www.rubyforums.com/
My Blog - http://www.rwoliver.com/
Yukihiro M. wrote:
matz.
What sort of serious problem? Can we help?
On 10/25/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [email protected] wrote:
Back to RAMEAU.
These are some really interesting results! I guess the benchmark you
use
can make a big difference. The one I used had heavy IO, which might be
part
of it. Although you would expect the cygwin dll to impart some overhead
there.
–
Robert W. Oliver II
President, OCS Solutions, Inc. - Web Hosting and Development
Toll-Free Phone - 1-800-672-8415
OCS Ruby Forums - http://www.rubyforums.com/
My Blog - http://www.rwoliver.com/
On Wed, 25 Oct 2006, Robert O. wrote:
These are some really interesting results! I guess the benchmark you use
can make a big difference. The one I used had heavy IO, which might be part
of it. Although you would expect the cygwin dll to impart some overhead
there.
on our machines copying files with FileUtils.cp_r is just as fast as ‘cp
-r’ -
very fast or slow disks seems to contraindicate benchmarks which do much
io.
that said, every real world problem tends to do lots of io. …ducks!
-a
Hi,
In message “Re: [OT] Re: How do I tell when I’m on Cygwin?”
on Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:23:56 +0900, “Austin Z.”
[email protected] writes:
|If Matz, as usual, has a 1.8.6 release for Christmas (Matz?)
I am not going to release it for Christmas this year, unless any
serious problem found.
matz.
[email protected] wrote:
on our machines copying files with FileUtils.cp_r is just as fast as ‘cp
-r’ -
very fast or slow disks seems to contraindicate benchmarks which do much
io.
that said, every real world problem tends to do lots of io. …ducks!
-a
And there’s a black art tuning the Linux kernel memory manager to
optimize the tradeoffs between RAM for code and data, RAM for I/O
buffers and RAM for kernel tables. And I’m also guessing you’ve got
clustering and networking to balance as well.
It helps if you can afford a SAN with a huge cache, too. But, getting
back to CygWin, does anyone seriously use either CygWin or native
Windows servers in high-performance computing? I can’t even imagine a
cluster of servers with a Windows 2003 or even XP Professional license
on each one, and the Windows license gets more expensive when you need
the 64-bit version.
On Oct 24, 2006, at 7:40 PM, Gregory B. wrote:
it work OK there? I’m trying to figure out if I need to bypass
HighLine’s search for that too.
I have no idea how to install termios for Cygwin since it’s not part
of the standard distribution (i don’t think), and I’m not really a
Cygwin user.
However, stty is included with Cygwin, so I think highline would work
using that.
Well, if it’s not installed HighLine won’t find it anyway. Another
post claimed most Unix stuff will compile, so if someone manages it,
we will find it normally.
I’ll try bypassing just the native Windows check and see if that’s
enough.
Thanks for all the help everyone!
James Edward G. II
On 10/25/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [email protected] wrote:
933 MHz Pentium III running Windows than, say, a gcc-compiled (O2) Ruby
because I wasn’t using Windows on my laptop. By the way, speaking of
f00f_bug : no
Gentoo Linux Ruby
This has been pretty much my experience. I did a multi-way comparison
between VC6, VC7.1, Cygwin, and MinGW, and didn’t see much of a
performance boost.
I have a test suite that takes about 90 seconds to run on my dual Xeon
2.8GHz / 4GB of RAM Win32 box, and 14 seconds on my MacBook. The
Windows box has similar amounts of CPU performance, twice the RAM, and
10,000 RPM hard disks instead of 5,400 RPM. It should at least be
close to the Linux / MacOS build, in my opinion.
I think a better benchmark to use here would be Legion (the Ruby
equivalent of Phalanx for Perl). test/unit seems to really flog the
weak parts of Ruby win32.
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
matz.
What sort of serious problem? Can we help?
Doesn’t sound like there are any problems yet, and there will be a
release only if there is a need to fix something serious.
(But doesn’t the FXRuby loading problem caused by ruby 1.8.5 qualify as
serious? That’s what’s keeping me from upgrading from 1.8.4…)
Joel VanderWerf wrote:
What sort of serious problem? Can we help?
Doesn’t sound like there are any problems yet, and there will be a
release only if there is a need to fix something serious.
(But doesn’t the FXRuby loading problem caused by ruby 1.8.5 qualify as
serious? That’s what’s keeping me from upgrading from 1.8.4…)
FXRuby has got other problems, like FXScintilla going “end of life” out
from under it.
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
Joel VanderWerf wrote:
What sort of serious problem? Can we help?
Doesn’t sound like there are any problems yet, and there will be a
release only if there is a need to fix something serious.
(But doesn’t the FXRuby loading problem caused by ruby 1.8.5 qualify as
serious? That’s what’s keeping me from upgrading from 1.8.4…)
FXRuby has got other problems, like FXScintilla going “end of life” out
from under it.
That in no way affects my use of FXRuby. I’ve never liked FXScintilla,
and I don’t have much use for it anyway, in my numerical simulation and
visualization work.
Any other problems?
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
OK … here we go. I actually had to re-install CygWin; I had deleted it
because I wasn’t using Windows on my laptop. By the way, speaking of
laptops, I want all of you at RubyConf to know that it has gotten over
the sadness it was feeling as a dual-booted Window and Linux machine
being surrounded by Macs.
To cheer you up: A Penny Saved - Penny Arcade
The “I use a Mac, and I’m an elitist asshole” fake ad strip would be
in-theme too, but I don’t feel quite like trolling DHH about that
anymore.
Whooops…
David V.