# Hiring **URL:** \ **Category:** Rails\ **Created:** [June 27, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902 "2007-06-27T08:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/1 "2007-06-27T08:59:23Z")
Hi, I am looking to hire 2 experienced Rails programmers full-time in a Bangalore (India) based company. Feel free to contact me at removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid with your profiles. 1 year experience on Rails is required. Those recruited will work on internal projects for 3 months and based on performance will then be placed on external projects. We are looking at building a full-fledged Rails practise (15 people by the end of the year) and this is among the first steps in this direction. Warm Regards, Rajesh ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/2 "2007-06-27T17:21:05Z")
K. Rajesh wrote: > looking at building a full-fledged Rails practise (15 people by the > end of the year) and this is among the first steps in this direction. > > Warm Regards, > Rajesh That’s just great. RoR Development for $10/hr. ☹ Any chance you could wait for a year or two before you ruin it for the rest of us? Warmest Regards, jp ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/3 "2007-06-28T02:33:12Z")
On 6/27/07, Jeff P. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > Any chance you could wait for a year or two before you ruin it for the > rest of us? Wow, $10.00 per hour? You gotta be kidding me. Isn’t Globalization a wonderful thing? > Warmest Regards, > jp > > – > Posted via [http://www.ruby-forum.com/](http://www.ruby-forum.com/). > > > – Michael S. Linux Admin/Developer AIM: mikesteinfeld GTALK: removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/4 "2007-06-28T06:41:30Z")
Jeff P. wrote: > That’s just great. RoR Development for $10/hr. ☹ > > Any chance you could wait for a year or two before you ruin it for the > rest of us? > > Warmest Regards, > jp I shouldn’t worry too much, almost every report I’ve read and every experience I’ve had featuring Indian development houses has turned out bad. The fad won’t last too long. At least only as long as people realise they aren’t really saving money having to rebuild bad work. No offence to those in India who /are/ actually interested in producing quality work, they deserve as much of a chance as everyone else. It’s just those who think they can make a quick buck producing rubbish in areas with a stronger exchange rate who give the rest a bad name. Cliff ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/5 "2007-07-03T04:15:46Z")
Cliff R. wrote: > I shouldn’t worry too much, almost every report I’ve read and every > experience I’ve had featuring Indian development houses has turned out > bad. The fad won’t last too long. At least only as long as people > realise they aren’t really saving money having to rebuild bad work. In my historical experience, overseas outsourcing worked great for C++ and Java projects. (-; – Phlip [Test Driven Ajax (on Rails) [Book]](http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/9780596510657/) “Test Driven Ajax (on Rails)” assert\_xpath, assert\_javascript, & assert\_ajax ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/6 "2007-07-03T06:13:52Z")
Phlip wrote: > In my historical experience, overseas outsourcing worked great for C++ and > Java projects. > > > > (-; Fred ---
**Author:** ![KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/c77e96/32.png) [@KSRajesh](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/KSRajesh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:06am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/hiring/107902/7 "2007-07-03T07:06:07Z")
Cliff R. wrote: > I shouldn’t worry too much, almost every report I’ve read and every > experience I’ve had featuring Indian development houses has turned out > bad. The fad won’t last too long. At least only as long as people > realise they aren’t really saving money having to rebuild bad work. This is somewhat deceptive – the failures get a lot more attention than the successes. I’ve managed projects like this and worked with people who’ve managed projects like this. Some have succeeded and some have failed – a lot depends on how engaged you are in management. If you take the hands off “we’ll hand it a loosely worded spec and an imaginary schedule” approach that most companies use for in-house development you’ll get the same inevitable implosion. Multiplied by the fact that they can’t walk down the hall and say “uh, what the #@% $ do you mean here?”, the fact that you’re approximately on the other side of the world and thus the most trivial of communications takes 36 hours to bounce back and forth, and so on and so forth. You also have the matter of cultural differences. It is a mistake to think this means “Indian” vs. “American” – this just means separate offices only with fewer occasions to interact (and sometimes where one of the offices resents the other). Take your average Silicon Valley office / East Coast office cultural divide and add the aforementioned 36 hour round trip times and conference calls at unpleasant hours with a satellite delay of several hundred milliseconds, and you’ve got yourself a party. People stumble on this, thinking “hey, we have Indian engineers, problem solved!” It’s an easy stereotype trap and doomed to failure: you have two different offices with two different sets of people who spend all their time around their own office, and hemisphere of birth has approximately nothing to do with it. If you’re not talking all the time you’re setting yourself up for failure. On the other hand, if you address all of that head on you can succeed. This means extensive communication, adequate compartmentalization of responsibility, active tracking of who’s doing what, by when, and exactly what “what” is. This sometimes means a requirements analysis team whose job is to make sure the spec thrown to India is bulletproof, and a management team on both sides of the world looking for hurdles and smoothing through them. By now you may be noticing I’ve mentioned a bunch of people there who aren’t coding. This means more overhead, which means the project is big enough that the cost of having those people is smaller than the savings for the number of developers overseas. This means that it isn’t three engineers in the basement, or even most mid-sized XP teams. OTOH, the demand for Indian development is tapering off because the invisible hand has driven the costs up. Next up… Shinzen? People are having some good luck with offshoring to South America, where at least you can come in in the morning and have a phone call before people leave for the day. YMMV -faisal