On 1/22/07, Mark V. [email protected] wrote:
me is to tell us how do google searches. So why not just ignore the
We really shouldn’t get into long threads discussing who was polite
and who wasn’t. Despite that, I can’t resist jumping to the posters
defense here and saying that I didn’t find Matt’s replies “light
hearted” at all. I found them to be on the rude side.
+1 … again!
Most car accidents involving two vehicles are the fault of both drivers.
Same here. One asked a question that Google could easily answer, and
the other told him so, and thus offended him.
People who are somewhat new to FLOSS communities sometimes don’t even
think about googling for answers, because the information they need
would be private in a proprietary platform. For instance, it is very
hard to discover who is responsible for a certain component of
Microsoft Visual Studio. And even if you do find out, they are usually
not accessible to an outsider. So it’s easy to understand why the
whole thread started.
Welcome to Ruby and Free/Libre/OpenSource Software in general, Jonathan!
Cheers,
Luciano
People who are somewhat new to FLOSS communities sometimes don’t even
think about googling for answers, because the information they need
would be private in a proprietary platform.
Luciano, do you have any idea how rude and arrogant you are being right
now?
People coming from the MS world know damn well how to use a search
engine. It is generally the first thing we try before going to the news
groups.
In fact, in this case the first thing I did was search google for the
error messages I was seeing.
Time is precious to each and every one of us, so doing some research
before
asking questions, is more than just a courtesy. Do your reseach, ask
clear
questions and most of the time your question gets answered.
That is a complete load of bullshit. Matt alone has already spent more
time on saying how much of a lazy idiot I am than he did answering my
question. And that doesn’t count the time all of you spend either
defending or critizing him.
All I asked was that Matt give me a complete answer. On any other
newsgroup, the person would have had the foresight to think “Maybe this
person would like to know HOW to contact the people I told him to talk
to.” It isn’t like it would have taken him any extra time.
As for research, I did it BEFORE I found this forum. Once I was in a
conversation with Matt, he was a going to help me through my problem.
I have something to say about the general attitude of the people on the
Microsoft groups compared to that of this list.
On a Microsoft lists, I have never heard someone say “Why didn’t you
search of Google?” or “Didn’t you read the manual?” There is a general
assumption that if the person is asking a question than obviously they
have tried the other routes and were unsuccessful.
Likewise, if I are going to help someone I spend the time to actually
help them. That often means I have do to a little bit of research on my
own in order to give a complete answer. If I don’t have that time, then
I let someone else answer the question. Better no answer at all than a
useless one.
If you guys are serious about pulling people from the closed source
world, then some of your members really need to learn how to treat
people with kindess respect. Especially frustrated newbies who have not
yet learned where to look for information. And that includes that you
stop assuming they are too lazy or stupid to use google.
That said, I still don’t have an answer to my question about how to fix
FreeRIDE.
Jonathan
I appreciate your help, and I’m sure I’ll forget this incident in short
order. However, there is one thing that really troubles me over the
long term.
It isn’t that FreeRIDE and the other tool were being affected by bugs
in Ruby, that can be fixed. My problem is that unsupported software is
being shipped in the main distribution and the general attitude it “Oh
well, just try XXX”.
This time it was just a basic IDE, but what about next time? It seems
to me that there is a really good chance that I am going to end up
developming something in Ruby 1.8.5, only to find out that one of the
libraries I rely on is not supported and the new version isn’t
backwards compatible.
Will it really happen? Probably not. But the impression that it could,
and that Ruby doesn’t have good oversight over it is distributing, make
me really nervious.
Jonathan
That said, I still don’t have an answer to my question about how to fix
FreeRIDE.Jonathan
Here’s an answer that might actually help you out 
I encountered the same issues when first delving into ruby. However, I
soon discovered that the ruby one-click installer comes with a great
little light-weight editor called SciTE. Check the install directory
from the one-click, it should be there. Now, I wouldn’t call it an “IDE”
but it’s got syntax highlighting and is very light weight. I really
enjoy coding in it.
I also use RadRails (an Eclipse plugin) when doing Rails development on
windows. When I’m working with either Rails or Ruby on a mac, I turn to
TextMate (what else?). Hope this helps clear up some issues you’re
having.
I, for one, feel that the response you received was ridiculous. I
started learning ruby and frequenting these boards about 6 months ago
and the warm reception I received as a nuby was one of the main things
that cause me to be so drawn to the language.
There may be a few people that are degrading the quality of these
boards, but as said previously, you are very likely to get a nice,
helpful response. Don’t give up on ruby, it’s a great language and a
wonderful community (in my experience).
-Drew
The one-click installer isn’t the ‘main distribution’ for Ruby. It
is an independent project put together by a volunteer.
Then Ruby has a serious perception issue it needs to be addressed. The
one-click installer is the very first entry listed under “Windows”, is
described as “the best option for you”, and has no mention that some of
the components are no longer being maintained.
Maybe I’m reading too much into your comments but it seems like you have
some unfounded expectations going into this endeavor. That is a good
way to get disappointed.
No, you are not reading too much into it. And the deeper I dig into
this, the more I’m disappointed.
In order to use tech like Ruby in a production setting, I need to know
that the software is “supported”. To me that means that someone is
still comitted to maintaining the product and that when something goes
wrong, someone is willing to fix it.
That isn’t the case with FX Ruby 1.2, even though it is only a couple
of years old. And I suspect there is some serious problems with the FX
Ruby team’s philosophy, as it appears that it isn’t an easy upgrade to
the current version. Of course, it may be the FreeRIDE team which has
the problem, I don’t know.
If you guys want to be taken seriously by the business world, there is
a certain level of quality that needs to be reached. That includes
having reasonable control over the distributions on your own home page
and clear indication about what is being maintained and what isn’t.
Now maybe that isn’t your goal, which is fine. There is no shame in
targeting hobbyists. But the quality of work and attention to detail in
other areas suggests otherwise.
Jonathan
On Jan 22, 2007, at 6:00 PM, [email protected] wrote:
It isn’t that FreeRIDE and the other tool were being affected by bugs
in Ruby, that can be fixed. My problem is that unsupported software is
being shipped in the main distribution and the general attitude it “Oh
well, just try XXX”.
The one-click installer isn’t the ‘main distribution’ for Ruby. It
is an independent project put together by a volunteer. Perhaps it meets
your needs, perhaps not, but I don’t think it would be accurate to
view it
as the ‘main distribution’ of Ruby.
I’m also not sure that you should be expecting ‘supported’ software
in this case. That usually implies you are purchasing some sort of
service plan from a vendor of some sort. Sure, the ‘community’ might
be supporting it but that isn’t the same thing as some sort of
contracted
support.
Maybe I’m reading too much into your comments but it seems like you have
some unfounded expectations going into this endeavor. That is a good
way to get disappointed.
Gary W.
On Sun, 2007-21-01 at 13:26 +0900, Jonathan A. wrote:
Tell me something, why do you bother?
I mean, clearly the only “help” you are willing to offer to people like
me is to tell us how do google searches. So why not just ignore the
question and let someone else field the answer?
How else is he supposed to prove that his Pretendy-Fun-Time e-penis is
bigger than yours?
–
Michael T. Richter
Email: [email protected], [email protected]
MSN: [email protected], [email protected]; YIM:
michael_richter_1966; AIM: YanJiahua1966; ICQ: 241960658; Jabber:
[email protected]
“I have never seen the poor people being so familiar with their heads of
state as they were with [Michele Duvalier]. It was a beautiful lesson
for me. I’ve learned something from it.” --Mother Theresa
On Jan 22, 2007, at 7:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
If you guys want to be taken seriously by the business world, there is
a certain level of quality that needs to be reached. That includes
having reasonable control over the distributions on your own home page
and clear indication about what is being maintained and what isn’t.
I think you are imagining an organization that doesn’t exist with
respect to Ruby. The www.ruby-lang.org website is maintained entirely
by volunteers from the Ruby community. There is no Ruby Foundation
analogous to the Apache Software Foundation or the Mozilla Foundation
nor is their a commercial organization like Red Hat.
Maybe there should be. But until then, the tone of your comments seems
somewhat untoward.
Gary W.
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