Did Something Changed Again in Spec

Ruby IronRuby
21

This is just basic Ruby. If you want to use Ruby, you have to learn
Ruby’s
nuances. :slight_smile:

Ryan R.

Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanriley
Blog: http://wizardsofsmart.net/
Twitter: @panesofglass
Website: http://panesofglass.org/

22

When the -S support gets checked in, we shouldn’t need copying files and
so on. Again dev.bat IS NOT NEEDED for anyone who doesn’t develop
IronRuby itself, it is only needed to use the IronRuby sources to build
IronRuby.

It is expected that dev.bat won’t be found unless you add dev.bat to the
path. We don’t plan on changing that since we don’t want to mess with
peoples’ paths from the git repo.

JD

23

This is just basic Ruby. If you want to use Ruby, you have to learn
Ruby’s
nuances. :slight_smile:

Disagree! You don’t have to perform configurations in Ruby. It just
works :slight_smile:

24

Currently in order to run spec I did the following:

  1. Set the environment variable for IronRuby (This is done to use
    IronRuby on the machine)

  2. Copying the files and renaming them.

  3. Add IronRuby configs in App.config if I need to invoke spec command
    from C#.

Sorry to say but 90% of the people will bail out and NOT use IronRuby. I
have experienced the same feedback from people who were in my IronRuby
presentation.

25

interesting you are not opposed to having an installer mess up your
system
which involves several clicks, registry entries but are opposed to
adding an
entry to PATH and copying 2 files to make an app, which is still in
development, work.

But good to know what we can do to make it even easier for people to get
on
board.

would running a small script or installing a gem be better for you? Can
I
change the path permanently through the registry or something?

Met vriendelijke groeten - Best regards - Salutations
Ivan Porto C.
GSM: +32.486.787.582
Blog: http://flanders.co.nz
Twitter: http://twitter.com/casualjim
Author of IronRuby in Action (http://manning.com/carrero)

26

The problem is that every person has their own IronRuby folder. It has
to work same for everyone. Kind of like libraries in GAC.

You are NOT thinking throughly about the problem!

This is not regarding putting the path in ENV variables and copying
couple of files. This is about doing the same thing for 10 servers. I
don’t think you will be comfortable doing the same for 10 servers.

This also adds extra work for writing build scripts that will do this
work.

Maybe the IronRuby installation should add the IronRuby folder to a
common path which is same for all the machines. Kind of like when
installing the .NET framework which is usually on a common place.

27
  1. what environment variable do you need to set?
    2)will be changed soone
  2. why are you invoking the spec command from C#??? It makes sense to
    use other ruby libraries, but it’s odd (to me) to use the spec command
    from within C#. We’ve also mentioned that yes, this could be easier, but
    we don’t have the resources at current. Most .NET dev’s have had to deal
    with config files, so I don’t think your presentation experience is
    typical of most developers.

JD

28

If you want to deploy easily, then you can include the needed files in
the same directory as the DLL. Every programming system I have ever used
requires setup, it’s not hard to script setting up ENV variables and
copying files. We do this kind of thing on 20+ machines for testing for
IronRuby and IronPython. Using the installer does install to a common
location, %ProgramFiles%.

JD

29

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Mohammad A. [email protected]
wrote:

The problem is that every person has their own IronRuby folder. It has
to work same for everyone. Kind of like libraries in GAC.

You are NOT thinking throughly about the problem!

This is not regarding putting the path in ENV variables and copying
couple of files. This is about doing the same thing for 10 servers. I
don’t think you will be comfortable doing the same for 10 servers.

Seriously? If a developer isn’t comfortable with setting ENV variables
what
hope do they have to actually write decent code? Even visual studio has
it’s
own special command prompt runner (guess what, it’s a bat file, just
like
dev.bat)

Regarding 10 servers, why not? You can write a setup script once and
execute
it on those 10 servers.

This also adds extra work for writing build scripts that will do this
work.

Maybe the IronRuby installation should add the IronRuby folder to a
common path which is same for all the machines. Kind of like when
installing the .NET framework which is usually on a common place.

The .NET framework does not add it’s folder to the common path. Try run
regasm on a clean windows 7 machine from the command prompt and watch it
fail.

This does however raise a small question - does the IronRuby MSI
installer
drop a registry entry that others can use to determine the installation
path? That seems to be common practice amongst windows apps, and might
be
handy

30

I’m sorry if I offended you that wasn’t my intention. Don’t tell me I’m
not
thinking.

  1. Do you know what gems are and how they work? It’s like the GAC
  2. It’s easy to find out the location of a certain file from script and
    go
    from there (killing the need for the PATH variable)
  3. exactly it’s about a repeatable and scriptable process. so I don’t
    think
    an installer will do the trick you know, but invoking an included script
    does.
  4. I fully realise what a build server is, how you do automated
    deployments
    and how you provision many machines fast and quite frankly script the
    lot so
    I don’t have to do it twice.

So my advice stands
Buy a book on batch scripting
learn how ruby works.

if you’re provisioning a server the idea is that you’re in control of
where
you download and extract the zip.
so you know and it will probably be the same on another server you
create
and provision with your script (rocket science, I think not) killing the
need for a preordained location which probably isn’t where I want it.
You don’t even need to set the path and if you’re running a script it’s
easy
to do so in the script.

Met vriendelijke groeten - Best regards - Salutations
Ivan Porto C.
Blog: http://flanders.co.nz
Twitter: http://twitter.com/casualjim
Author of IronRuby in Action (http://manning.com/carrero)

31

You are completely missing my point!!!

gems are like GAC but IronRuby is not using them as GAC. It is using it
like a simple zip file extraction and folder path mechanism. Since, it
is not an installable every developer can download the IronRuby
framework in a different folder. Which means that on all the machines
the ENV variable is different and now gems are downloaded also in the
different folders. If we install IronRuby like “Ruby” using one click
installer then chances are high that it will reside in a common
directory. Using the method about I have to announce to all developers
that please keep your files in C:\IronRuby folder.

32

First, can you please join the mailing list so that we don’t have to
figure out your context. The forum doesn’t include the thread.

Gems are not like the GAC. The location of the GAC is hard to change,
yes you can do it via hint paths, but you will probably break something.
Gems are easy to move. Simply set your GEM_PATH environment variable.
You can also redirect the binary location at install time. Some of the
tools out there change the location of these things on purpose to allow
you to setup different “environments”. Gems are better compared to *nix
packaging systems than to the GAC. They handle dependency loading,
installation, versioning, etc.

If you need the IronRuby folder in the “right” location, then require
your users to use the installer with default options. However, even
then, you are requiring your users to go through the greater issue of
installing IronRuby and all of your required gems. You are also
requiring them to keep up with your versions if you choose to update. I
would expect people to include the IronRuby dll’s and the required ruby
libraries with their application, just like they would do with .NET
libraries. Then the setup isn’t a problem since it is only setting up
the app.

33

Seriously? If a developer isn’t comfortable with setting ENV variables
what
hope do they have to actually write decent code? Even visual studio has
it’s
own special command prompt runner (guess what, it’s a bat file, just
like
dev.bat)

Can we move forward to solve the problem instead of mocking?

34

Have you used the IronRuby installer? When I used it, it asked me for a
directory and defaulted to Program Files. How is that different than the
one-click Ruby installer?

Ryan R.

Email: [email protected]
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanriley
Blog: http://wizardsofsmart.net/
Twitter: @panesofglass
Website: http://panesofglass.org/

35

Most people will use Program files then c"\IronRuby or
c:\devtools\Ironruby.

Consider this thread closed!

36

rofl seriously? You don’t know when to call it quits do you.

If you want to duplicate environments you just zip up your installation,
copy it around, extract and add the location to the path (the last isn’t
mandatory, because you can still use absolute paths, after all if you
announce to developers where it needs to be then that’s where they need
to
extract it to). In this case everybody has the same gems and config. How
is
that worse than running an installer and requiring clicks?

By the way your problem will go a way with the next version of the
ironruby
installer (remember that this is still in development).

Met vriendelijke groeten - Best regards - Salutations
Ivan Porto C.
GSM: +32.486.787.582
Blog: http://flanders.co.nz
Twitter: http://twitter.com/casualjim
Author of IronRuby in Action (http://manning.com/carrero)

37

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Jim D. [email protected]
wrote:

If you need the IronRuby folder in the “right” location, then require your
users to use the installer with default options. However, even then, you are
requiring your users to go through the greater issue of installing IronRuby
and all of your required gems. You are also requiring them to keep up with
your versions if you choose to update. I would expect people to include the
IronRuby dll’s and the required ruby libraries with their application, just
like they would do with .NET libraries. Then the setup isn’t a problem since
it is only setting up the app.

Right. This isn’t .NET, so it shouldn’t behave like .NET. If developers
are
going to use Ruby, then they need to learn to use Ruby. You want to
solve a
problem, but I’m not seeing that a problem exists. The gem issue seems
to be
sorted soon with the dash_s addition. Other problems, such as C
extensions,
are problems for any non-MRI / Ruby 1.9 implementation, and everyone is
working on how to sort that out. IronRuby is still in development, and
the
team is doing a terrific job getting it there.

You’re going to have to help people shift their expectations to get them
onto IronRuby. I don’t expect (and don’t want) IronRuby to work like C#
or
VB.NET in Visual Studio. It’s a totally different animal altogether,
which
is what makes it so fun to use!

So, what exactly is the problem you want to solve? And please don’t
mention
config settings (already an issue for other .NET libraries), ENV
variables
(already optional in MRI), or gem naming issues, as these aren’t related
to
IronRuby.

Regards,
Ryan

38

Disagree. Try installing Ruby without the one click installer from
source. Try using ruby without gem and rake installed.

JD

39

I was trying to make ironruby to perform code coverage for a .NET
assembly using rcov but it seems like it is not currently supported
yet…

40

nope that’s right.

Met vriendelijke groeten - Best regards - Salutations
Ivan Porto C.
Blog: http://flanders.co.nz
Twitter: http://twitter.com/casualjim
Author of IronRuby in Action (http://manning.com/carrero)