# Bluecloth-2.0.0 released **URL:** \ **Category:** Ruby\ **Created:** [April 8, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085 "2009-04-08T23:46:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/1 "2009-04-08T23:46:23Z")
I tried to post this announcement twice yesterday, but both seem to have gotten lost. Anyway, I’d like to announce a brand new version of BlueCloth. You can read the announcement here: [http://deveiate.org/bluecloth2-announcement.html](http://deveiate.org/bluecloth2-announcement.html) ---
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/2 "2009-04-09T02:15:34Z")
Michael G. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > I tried to post this announcement twice yesterday, but both seem to > have gotten lost. Anyway, I’d like to announce a brand new version of > BlueCloth. You can read the announcement here: > > [http://deveiate.org/bluecloth2-announcement.html](http://deveiate.org/bluecloth2-announcement.html) Cool, but my response to this is the same as my response to RDiscount. I’m deeply invested in years of using the original Perl Markdown. I’d love to get off that, but in order for me to do so, it isn’t enough that a Markdown clone pass some abstract tests; it must generate HTML that is functionally identical to the HTML that Perl Markdown generates from the same original text. Discount, and therefore BlueCloth 2, does not. Just to be perfectly clear, I am using a Perl script, Markdown.pl, that is marked as follows: $VERSION = ‘1.0.1’; # Tue 14 Dec 2004 So, let’s proceed to some examples: BlueCloth.new("I’m testing ").to\_html #=\> ===== I'm testing That is functionally significant (it causes extra vertical whitespace), and Perl Markdown does _not_ generate it. BlueCloth is apparently treating the extra spaces at the end of the input string as somehow significant. This next one is a little more involved; I’ll use a here document to display my input text: s = \<\ **Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/3 "2009-04-09T04:02:46Z") On Apr 8, 7:15 pm, removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid (matt neuburg) wrote: > Since that is what Perl Markdown does, and since I have > lots of text that relies upon Markdown behaving in that way, I naturally > incline to the view that that is the “correct” answer and that > BlueCloth’s output is “wrong”. I don’t think you necessarily need to use Perl Markdown as an authority in this case. It seems to me that the Markdown Web Dingus ([Daring Fireball: Markdown Web Dingus](http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/dingus)) could be seen as canonical, and it agrees with the output you give for Perl. But apparently Discount gives different output (and therefore so do rdiscount and Bluecloth), output that satisfies MarkdownTest. So which one is correct? ---
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/4 "2009-04-09T08:18:30Z")
On Apr 8, 2009, at 17:15 , matt neuburg wrote: > BlueCloth.new("I’m testing ").to\_html > #=\> ===== > > I'm testing > > That > is functionally significant (it causes extra vertical > whitespace), and Perl Markdown does _not_ generate it. BlueCloth is > apparently treating the extra spaces at the end of the input string as > somehow significant. It may not, but according to the markdown spec it should: “When you do want to insert a break tag using Markdown, you end a line with two or more spaces, then type return.” ---
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/5 "2009-04-09T15:21:48Z")
On Apr 8, 2009, at 5:15 PM, matt neuburg wrote: > Cool, but my response to this is the same as my response to RDiscount. > I’m deeply invested in years of using the original Perl Markdown. I’d > love to get off that, but in order for me to do so, it isn’t enough > that > a Markdown clone pass some abstract tests; it must generate HTML > that is > functionally identical to the HTML that Perl Markdown generates from > the > same original text. Discount, and therefore BlueCloth 2, does not. You’re absolutely correct – Discount (and therefore anything based on it) generates HTML according to the Markdown Syntax Documentation ([Daring Fireball: Markdown Syntax Documentation](http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax) ) and the MarkdownTest test suite released by John Gruber ([trailing spaces in code block](http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/2006-June/000079.html) ), and not necessarily according to what Markdown.pl generates. If you’re counting on exactly reproducing Markdown.pl’s output, you should definitely use Markdown.pl. > BlueCloth.new("I’m testing ").to\_html > #=\> ===== > > I'm testing > > That > is functionally significant (it causes extra vertical > whitespace), and Perl Markdown does _not_ generate it. BlueCloth is > apparently treating the extra spaces at the end of the input string as > somehow significant. Right, I’m aware of BR’s functional significance in HTML. The Syntax documentation cited above states (under the Paragraphs and Line Breaks section): “When you do want to insert a break tag using Markdown, you end a line with two or more spaces, then type return.” Your test case doesn’t have a trailing newline, and the Syntax document doesn’t say what should happen with a line that ends with two spaces at the end of a document. Clearly Markdown.pl counts the ‘return’ part of that description as significant, and Discount does not. Perhaps a case could be made to include a test for the break tag rule only applying to the middle of a paragraph in MarkdownTest, and if so I suspect David Parsons would make Discount conform to the test. If you have a bunch of documents that end with two spaces and no newline, I can see how you might not want to use Discount-based transformers. I personally do not, so I view this as an anomaly and a tradeoff I am willing to make. > As you can see, the last > > block (containing “more li”) _is_ part of > the > > - block. Since that is what Perl Markdown does, and since I > have > lots of text that relies upon Markdown behaving in that way, I > naturally > incline to the view that that is the “correct” answer and that > BlueCloth’s output is “wrong”. You are certainly welcome to your own view, but again, referring to the Syntax Documentation: “List items may consist of multiple paragraphs. Each subsequent paragraph in a list item must be indented by either 4 spaces or one tab:” Your “more li” line is _not_ indented by either 4 spaces or one tab, so I’m guessing you’re counting on the “lazy” indentation of subsequent lines of the same paragraph. To me, two blank lines and an intervening PRE calls into question whether or not the next line is actually part of the previous LI or not when it’s indented by a single space. I’m sure Markdown.pl agrees with your assessment, and that’s why it marks it up the way it does. So if by “correct” you mean “does exactly what Perl Markdown does despite what it says in the documentation”, then yes, BlueCloth is wrong. I incline to the view that a Markdown implementation should follow what it says in the documentation and pass the test suite set out by the creator of Markdown (the syntax), which BlueCloth does. I’m certainly not suggesting that you should give up your reliance on Markdown.pl’s output if you don’t mind forking a Perl interpreter every time you want to transform your text to HTML. I’m sharing my source because I’ve made something for myself that I think might be useful to others. If it isn’t useful to you, either keep doing what does work for you or consider contributing some value back to the system by providing fixes. Anything else is just sound and fury. ---
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/6 "2009-04-09T19:05:57Z")
Michael G. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote: > Right, I’m aware of BR’s functional significance in HTML. The Syntax > documentation cited above states (under the Paragraphs and Line Breaks > section): > > “When you do want to insert a > break tag using > Markdown, you end a line with two or more spaces, then > type return.” > > Your test case doesn’t have a trailing newline, and the Syntax > document doesn’t say what should happen with a line that ends with two > spaces at the end of a document Right, but I was just simplifying; in real life the example did have two trailing newlines. In other words, the way I discovered this issue was from a situation more like the following: require ‘rubygems’ require ‘bluecloth’ puts BlueCloth.new(" two spaces follow two spaces follow done ").to\_html Markdown puts a after the first line but not after the second. Discount puts a after both. > not. Perhaps a case could be made to include a test for the break tag > rule only applying to the middle of a paragraph in MarkdownTest Yes, I think so. But really, that case isn’t worth worrying about too much; the two spaces were actually just a mistake, and easily eliminated. > > As you can see, the last > > > > block (containing “more li”) _is_ part of > > “List items may consist of multiple paragraphs. Each subsequent > > paragraph in a list item must be indented by either 4 spaces > > or one tab:” > > Your “more li” line is _not_ indented by either 4 spaces or one tab That’s true, but what would be really helpful is if you would tell me what text to start with to generate the result I’m after. Here’s the schema for the desired result: - testing I can add spaces to cause the “more li” to be included in the - block, but I haven’t found a way to do that _and_ wrap “more li” in a block with BlueCloth. So, for example, this works the way I expect: puts BlueCloth.new(" - testing done").to\_html In that example, both “more li” and “still more li” are each wrapped in a tag and they are both within the - tag that started in the first line. But if I delete “still more li”, I can’t get “more li” all by itself to be wrapped in a tag and within the - tag. So surely Discount here disagrees with itself in a way that could be taken as troublesome, on the basis of simple considerations of consistency. If you eliminate the “still more li” line, I am obeying the lines you quote: “Each subsequent paragraph in a list item must be indented by … 4 spaces”; yet I am not getting a paragraph in the output. > out by the creator of Markdown (the syntax), which BlueCloth does. I’m > certainly not suggesting that you should give up your reliance on > Markdown.pl’s output if you don’t mind forking a Perl interpreter > every time you want to transform your text to HTML. Well, I do mind it. That’s why I want to switch away! But in order to do so, I have to be able to generate the HTML I’m already generating. > If it isn’t useful to you, either > keep doing what does work for you or consider contributing some value > back to the system by providing fixes. Anything else is just sound and > fury. So there’s no such thing as a conceivably legitimate bug report, and there’s no such thing as asking for help? m. ---
**Author:** ![mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@mgreenly](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/mgreenly)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/bluecloth-2-0-0-released/165085/7 "2009-04-10T19:37:10Z")
On Apr 9, 2009, at 10:05 AM, matt neuburg wrote: > there’s no such thing as asking for help? m. > You’re right, bug reports are also valuable contributions, and asking > for help is never a bad thing. I didn’t read your response as either > of those, but if it was I apologize. I’d suggest phrasing future bug reports as “hey I found a few bugs in your release” instead of “hey, I’m not going to use your stuff because I prefer what I’m already using.” 🙂 I’ll open tickets for the inconsistencies you found, and try to upstream them if I can figure out how to fix them.