# Authentication services for the general public - Electronic

**URL:** <https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693>\
**Category:** Rails\
**Created:** [June 30, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693 "2006-06-30T21:47:28Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/kuma)\
**Post date:** [June 30, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693/1 "2006-06-30T21:47:28Z")

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Does anyone know of any services that could be used to authenticate a  
user  
that would be a member of the general public? One of the projects we’re  
looking at here needs to have forms signed by parents of students. Since  
we  
simply can’t put every parent or guardian in our databse, we need a way  
to  
outsource the authentication.

I’m wondering if there are any services that could process an SSN, name,  
and  
birthday so that we could verify that the parent is actually ‘signing’  
the  
form.

Or might there be better solutions to accepting and validating an  
electronic  
signature?

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**Author:** ![kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/kuma)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693/2 "2006-07-01T02:17:07Z")

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James:

Employers, banks, credit bureaus, and credit card processors all have  
access  
to this information. The question is, what method do they use? Most  
likely a  
credit checking service. That’s why we were wondering if there was a  
secure  
authorization gateway that worked along the same lines.

This is for financial aid purposes and it’s not optional in many cases.  
We  
have discussed the idea of having parents create accounts at orientation  
but  
it could turn into a maintenence nightmare. With paper forms, it’s  
pretty  
easy to spot forgery. With electronic signatures, we need some method to  
ensure that the person is who they say they are.

As for parents whould wouldn’t want to give out this information, I say  
good  
for them. They’ll just have to sign a paper copy.

I don’t think that many kids know their mother or father’s SSN. I know  
a  
lot of students who don’t even know their own when they come to college.  
We  
don’t use it at all any more (laws and all).

Again, I do like the idea of the parents creating accounts, but I don’t  
think it’s an option… yet.

But that’s why I asked the question 🙂 Thanks!

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**Author:** ![kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/kuma)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693/3 "2006-07-01T19:22:03Z")

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Brian H. wrote:

> Or might there be better solutions to accepting and validating an  
> electronic signature?

In general, it is impossible to verify identity over the internet. You  
cannot ensure that “the person is who they say they are”. It doesn’t  
matter whether they have “user accounts” or not.

ALL you can verify is that the person signing on knows a certain  
password, or some other information you use to capture his identity –  
SSN, pass phrase, whatever. It’s all the same in the end, absent some  
kind of magic equipment (retinal scanner, on-line fingerprinting,  
realtime DNA analyzer, … 🙂

As for kids not knowing their parents’ SSNs – I think you’ll be amazed  
how fast they find out if they have a good reason to do so.

–Al Evans

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**Author:** ![kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@kuma](https://www.ruby-forum.com/u/kuma)\
**Post date:** [July 1, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://www.ruby-forum.com/t/authentication-services-for-the-general-public-electronic/96693/4 "2006-07-01T01:26:35Z")

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On 6/30/06, Brian H. [removed\_email\_address@domain.invalid](mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid) wrote:

> I’m wondering if there are any services that could process an SSN, name, and  
> birthday so that we could verify that the parent is actually ‘signing’ the  
> form.

Aside from the fact that I hope the answer is “no” to there being a  
database out there that you can simply access with this kind of data,  
the kids will know this info about their parents. You still won’t be  
able to trust that it’s the parents’ signatures.

Plus, some parents simply won’t give you this info anyway. I  
certainly wouldn’t.

Is there a reason why the parents who are interested in using this  
service can’t simply set up user accounts? Show up at the school with  
an ID and set your username and password.

– James