I would blame Go, which is pretty much nuts as they say in #go-nuts.
/sarcasm
Subject: Re: Are we dying?
Date: mer 06 ago 14 10:21:55 +0200
Quoting Robert K. ([email protected]):
Do you guys think it’s worthwhile trying? If so we should probably
collect feedback to judge how many people here would make the move.
I for one would only move if the move was embraced/encouraged by Matz
and/or the MRI kernel group. I use this list as a way to ‘measure the
pulse rate’ of my favourite language, and it does its task perfectly
as it is.
By the way, my health is quite OK and I go on coding in Ruby.
Carlo
Sam S. [email protected] wrote:
Is there a way to allow non-subscribers to post?
Yes we can do that, I would probably shield it to go to a particular
category that can be triaged (each category can have distinct incoming
mail addresses)
OK. One more thing: is subscription/unsubscription possible via
email-only commands? The browser support requirements on your
README.md look very steep :<
Discourse has a fair amount of spam protection built in but we would
need to beef up the anonymous mail in stuff if we were to enable it in
high scale / visiblity.
I’ve had good results with SpamAssassin for over 10 years, so I can
recommend it (spamc + spamd). The combination of approaches
(rules + Bayes) seems to be a good fit.
Thanks for the info!
Hi Robert (and all),
I am pretty excited with Sam S.'s answer.
This is nice. Sam, thank you for offering the hosting. I have never
tried to move a community from one medium to another. Do you guys
think it’s worthwhile trying? If so we should probably collect
feedback to judge how many people here would make the move.
We could open a separate thread for a kind of “voting”, just to not
pollute the main discussion. And yes Carlo Prelz, it would be great to
hear Matz’ opinion.
Here (in this thread) we could try to foresee all possible “problems”.
Couldn’t we just raise up the Discourse instance and let the message
movement naturally go there? Could we?
One thing I foresse is a smaller number of users. Just because a lot
of the current users (in any list that has a long run) are not active
anymore but just forgot to unsubscribe.
So, If you see a much smaller group on Discourse, we shouldn’t see
this as “failure” signal. So this will not bother me in anyway as we
are raising a foundation to grow the participation level of the
remaining and newcomers one.
Another one is “timing”. It may take some time for everybody to
“migrate”. One or two weeks at least for us to see a good amount of
people on the new media (Discourse).
I see as a GREAT advantage of using Discourse is the possibility for
people to engage only on things they are interested in, and do this in
an easier way. As I said before, people some time have “small fights”
over here just because they have to share “Exactly” the same room. At
Discourse I think we all would be in the SAME HOUSE, but we will be
happier in being at some rooms than in anothers (and not being
prohibited to walk by the entire house).
As Sam S. said:
Discourse has a fair amount of advantages when it comes to running a
large group, you could segment out groups that need more private
discussions, or even have “observer only” categories. Talking about
code is easier with syntax highlighting, markdown has its advantages,
search is better and so on.
Best regards,
Abinoam Jr.
This is nice. Sam, thank you for offering the hosting. I have never
tried to move a community from one medium to another. Do you guys
think it’s worthwhile trying? If so we should probably collect
feedback to judge how many people here would make the move.
We have move quite a few communities to Discourse from other formats.
http://discourse.mcneel.com/ moved from good’ol newsgroups, Parley moved
from Google groups, Docker are in the process of moving from Google
groups.
All I can promise is that it is not all roses, some people love change
others
can not stand it. Its universal constant that any shift in medium will
lead to
some people being unhappy.
Overall I think there are plenty of advantages of making an official
move to Discourse,
clearly this would be my biased opinion.
- We have very close parity to current state of affairs (with mail in
/ out options) - It would be very good PR for Ruby showing what kind cutting edge of
apps can
be built with Ruby - Syntax highlight / quoting etc.
- Search/history/linking/categorization and all that Jazz would be handy
- Security can be setup to give low noise areas to high visibility
conversations
I definitely think that any kind of move needs to be sanctioned by
Matz / Koichi first,
even prior to experimentation. Ideally all the conversation moves to
the new medium.
It eliminates fragmentation and allows a central spot for Ruby
dev/user discussion.
Its not a kind of move that can be done rogue.
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Robert K.
Hi Matz & Koichi,
in case you haven’t read this. What do you think of the move of
ruby-talk to another medium ( http://www.discourse.org/ )?
Kind regards
robert
Hi Eric W.,
Ah, OK, I understand you now, but I disagree. With good spam
filtering(*), no moderation is necessary at all. Even worse,
infrequent outsiders mean moderators forget to process the queue.
Forgetting to process the queue is not a problem.
Most mailing list servers may remind the moderators sending them one
e-mail per outsider’s post. So the “queue” comes directly to the
moderators’ mail inbox. And the moderation itself costs as little as a
push to the “reply” button.
(*) I’ve used SpamAssassin for the past decade or so, it’s great!
I’ve started documenting how I use it with inotify (since 2008)
for my personal email and also for public-inbox (same server):
http://public-inbox.org/dc-dlvr-spam-flow.txt
Great!
Both methods combined is even greater!
Well, you know… I don’t completely trust computers 
Abinoam Jr.
Sam S. [email protected] writes:
http://discourse.mcneel.com/ moved from good’ol newsgroups, Parley moved
from Google groups, Docker are in the process of moving from Google groups.
Just to ensure I get that right. Are we keeping the ML interface or not?
I have no incentives to always run over to some web forum, and generally
find mailinglists easier to use. It may also be that occasionally I am
too lazy to start X and just use text mode, which generally plays not
really well with highly designed websites. Having several different
communities united by a single interface in my mail client is just
superior to logging into a thousand different web forums which are
designed one way or another with or without similarities.
Vale,
Marvin
Hi,
Having discourse as a media for our communication channel sounds good.
I think obsoleting ruby-talk still needs discussion among the community.
matz.
In message “Re: Are we dying?”
on Fri, 8 Aug 2014 09:39:49 +0200, Robert K.
[email protected] writes:
|
|Hi Matz & Koichi,
|
|in case you haven’t read this. What do you think of the move of
|ruby-talk to another medium ( http://www.discourse.org/ )?
|
|Kind regards
|
|robert
On 8/8/14, Yukihiro M. [email protected] wrote:
Hi,
Having discourse as a media for our communication channel sounds good.
I think obsoleting ruby-talk still needs discussion among the community.matz.
pls do not remove the mailing list.
thanks --botp
On Aug 8, 2014, at 4:37 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Having several different
communities united by a single interface in my mail client is just
superior to logging into a thousand different web forums which are
designed one way or another with or without similarities.
Absolutely agree. If a community is not in email, it’s just another
archive to occasionally show up in a google search – or more likely be
completely forgotten.
Personally I never used or needed ruby-talk, but that is because I never
learned how to deal with mass emails in general. 
I more like the forum-approach style.
Or Overview - Ruby master - Ruby Issue Tracking System too - of course this is
not good for a discussion forum, but the principle I like very much.
What I have however noticed in the last some years is that new stuff
like github, and that includes the notifications there, had an impact or
a change over the old mailing-list discussion styles.
The great thing about a forum is that I can be lazy and respond only
when I want to, whereas with mass mails I would feel compelled to have
to reply to everything and this is just way too much work. And then it
feels as if I have to clean up through a lot of mails … which takes
away time I could better use to write ruby code!
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 11:12:39PM +0800, botp wrote:
On 8/8/14, Yukihiro M. [email protected] wrote:
Hi,
Having discourse as a media for our communication channel sounds good.
I think obsoleting ruby-talk still needs discussion among the community.matz.pls do not remove the mailing list.
thanks --botp
+1 !!!
I don’t want a web interface. I find emails much easier to search when I
need to find something that’s been discussed in past.
For me, a mailing list is essential. I do not and will not follow forums
simply too much bother, and I don’t have the time. I WILL consult a
forum
to solve specific problems, but that’s it.
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Darryl L. Pierce [email protected]
Maybe this could be an opportunity for discourse to be a transparent
medium between mailing lists and the forum?
Tom C. wrote:
pls do not remove the mailing list.
thanks --botp+1 !!!
I don’t want a web interface. I find emails much easier to search when I
need to find something that’s been discussed in past.
Agree - no web forum please!
I agree with the fact that using email as a vehicle for communication is
something we don’t want to lose. Having an upgrade to ruby-forum.com
would
be nice. Is discourse our only option?
Having a centralized area for user contrib tutorials for both
clarification
and education, user code commits to further enhance the site as well as
getting back to the basics of mentoring from older community members to
aid
noobies to both ruby and programming.
If there is anything I could do to help let me know. I would love to be
participative to the transition and give back to this community what it
has
given me.
Stu
I would only say, being a N00bie that taking part of and being reminded
of
(daily) discussions via e-mail is an inspiration to me.
Cheers/Kasper
Hi all,
Throwing some bytes more on the discussion.
We can’t forget that we ALREADY have a FORUM option for the list.
We had some problems with these forum-list gateway in the past.
If Discourse when properly configured could handle both “faces” of our
community it would be really great in my opinion.
I just don’t know Discourse enough to be sure it can “mimetize” the
mail only mailing list well.
Stu, I really don’t know any other options as qualified for the job as
Discourse.
And remember, we would be using and helping the growth of a tool that
uses Ruby.
The Ruby-Lang website is made in Jekyll
https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/about/website/
Ruby Issue tracker is powered by Redmine
We mainly use GitHub as code repository.
I think we really couldn’t ignore the fact that Discourse uses Ruby.
Well, weekend is coming, perhaps I’ll have time to explorer Discourse
a little bit more and contribute with a more “solid” opinion on the
issue.
Best regards,
Abinoam Jr.
[email protected] wrote:
I have no incentives to always run over to some web forum, and generally
find mailinglists easier to use. It may also be that occasionally I am
too lazy to start X and just use text mode, which generally plays not
really well with highly designed websites. Having several different
communities united by a single interface in my mail client is just
superior to logging into a thousand different web forums which are
designed one way or another with or without similarities.
Right on. I couldn’t figure out a way to subscribe via email-only
commands to meta or try.discourse.org, nor could I find a way to
subscribe on the website with the text-only lynx browser.
Using Ruby does not require a GUI, so discussing Ruby should not require
a GUI. Heck, discussing anything using text should never require a GUI.
That said, reading old archives of newly-discovered lists is a pain for
many mailing lists. Gmane is great, but NNTP is slow to sync for
offline reading.
ssoma + public-inbox[1] seems OK for the some Ruby projects I run; it
stores messages in git, and allows extracting messages to any
mbox/Maildir/IMAP location as well as feeding mlmmj lists.
[1] http://public-inbox.org/ + http://ssoma.public-inbox.org/