On Aug 10, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Victor R. wrote:
to the ruby-lang.org website is essential --and is controlled by matz
plan takes effect, Ruby will never have a beginner/expert list! …
discussions,
specially since I am no more than a mere and simple beginner, and I
feel
that I can’t add anything to the big brainier discussion. That been
said, I
have a problem with a beginner list:
- Would a beginner question receives a beginner’s answer?
Having participated on the Perl Beginners list for years, I will
answer from that perspective.
The answer is: we sure hope so! If beginners learn some point and
then share that with others, the whole community wins. To me, this is
one of the big signs of healthy community growth.
Of course, experts would also be available to answer questions as
well. That’s another needed element.
- How are we going to understand/learn new techniques and
creativity
which only the non-beginner posses? Please don’t be arrogant and
tell me to
learn it like you did! Although I know that this not your problem,
some
people, like I, at times needs to see examples.
There are several members on the Perl Beginners list who are well
known experts in the community. If we couldn’t get any of our own
experts to join in such an effort, it would be a sign that our
community is quite broken, in my opinion. Many of us enjoy helping
others and would gladly join and help answer questions.
- When would a beginner like I be permitted into the big boys
(non-beginner) club?
Whenever you decide you are ready, even if that’s on day one. As
other’s have suggested, tracking both may be a great idea.
- What’s wrong with being a beginner?
In the past I have learn interesting techniques from you, big boys,
non-beginners and I wish I could continue to count on that. I have
received
answers from some of the Ruby book authors and from some of the Ruby
packages developers, also from just fun loving Ruby hackers, and YES
from
beginners to.
There’s absolutely nothing at all wrong with being a beginner. If we
removed all beginners from the community it would eventually die, so I
think they are quite important.
The issue is that the Ruby community has exploded with growth lately.
With that, the signal to noise ratio of these lists has shifted some.
This has had some negative effects for everyone. First, many experts
have retreated to other places after being overwhelmed. As you’ve
already pointed out, that hurts the beginners ability to get good
answers. Also, many beginners are probably a little intimidated by
the new volume and sometimes less inviting tone. Giving them a more
welcoming place to pose questions and receive help could be a big win,
if more of them felt comfortable there.
If a person considers that a question is too simple and s(he) does
not wants
to waste time on it, skip it. If your arrogance does not let you see
your
feet, well good for you.
But please let us beginners feel comfortable and let Ruby grow with
our
stupid questions!
You are and always will be welcome here. We’re just discussing if
there are other ways we can add to that. Please don’t take offense.
James Edward G. II