A Follow up to my fedora question: Favorite Flavor Of Linux?

It’s notorious for there being a very long time between successive
“stable” releases; however, most people with needs for more current
software than is in “stable” use the “testing” release without any
problems.

For a version of software to move in “testing”, it has to have had no
defects logged against it for X days. When you consider the sheer
number of systems running Debian “unstable”, that means it’s generally
pretty solid by the time it gets to “testing”. I know of lots of
servers that run “testing” in production.

Regards

Dave M.

Isn’t Debian notorious for taking a really long time to package and
release new software?

Also many distros’ like Ubuntu, Knoppix etc are build on top of Debian
Unstable.

-bakki

On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 08:18:34PM +0100, Joe wrote:
[…]

Yeah, I know. But as I understand it, RHEL is built from Fedora releases
that are three versions old.

I don’t think that’s accurate. I think the two trees are maintained
separately, and sometimes Fedora code gets incorporated into RHEL
releases after it’s been tested and possibly modified.

However, I could be wrong.


- Adam

** Expert Technical Project and Business Management
**** System Performance Analysis and Architecture
****** [ http://www.everylastounce.com ]

[ Adam Fields (weblog) - - entertaining hundreds of millions of eyeball atoms every day ] … Blog
[ Adam Fields Resume ]… Experience
[ Adam Fields | Flickr ] … Photos
[ http://www.aquicki.com/wiki ]…Wiki
[ http://del.icio.us/fields ] … Links

On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 11:01:15PM +0100, Joe wrote:

Isn’t Debian notorious for taking a really long time to package and
release new software?

Yes, but that’s a good thing :slight_smile:
Debian values “stability” much higher than being on the cutting edge.

What do you want your production server environment to be? Stable, or
full of features? You can’t have both … if you think you can, you
have a different definition of “stable” to me … “stable” doesn’t just
mean “it works all the time”, it means “predictable and reliable”.

Debian provide their own security patches for every package that is
accepted into the stable distribution - therefore they don’t like much
change. Where a package upstream author might address a security problem
by saying “just use the latest version, it has more features too”,
Debian say “we’ll fix the old version; no new features will be added”.

But the “stable” distribution isn’t the only part of Debian - there are
other repositories with more advanced versions; they’re just not
supported by the security team. Many people run Debian with “testing” or
“unstable” releases (which are often stable enough for production
purposes, but there are no promises).

Sometimes Debian version names cause confusion - stable/testing/unstable
are role names, they each have a version number and version name as
well. The current stable distribution is Sarge, 3.1. The current testing
version is called Etch. Seeing as all the version names are taken from
Toy Story, you won’t be surprised to know that the unstable distribution
is always called Sid :slight_smile:

On a stable Debian machine, I really dislike building anything from
source, because I won’t be able to get “just” security patches, and I’ll
probably forget to update it anyway. I also don’t like installing
software from other helpful repositories, because I don’t know for sure
that they are providing decent security patching, either.

Where I need stability, but more up-to-date software, I tend to go for
one of the Debian derivitives - Ubuntu is my primary choice. Ubuntu’s
“stable” distribution has fewer packages than Debian (but the choice
seems to be about right), and they version upgrade every six months.
This makes it much closer to “stable and cutting-edge” …

-jim

Adam F. wrote:

On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 08:18:34PM +0100, Joe wrote:
[…]

Yeah, I know. But as I understand it, RHEL is built from Fedora releases
that are three versions old.

I don’t think that’s accurate. I think the two trees are maintained
separately, and sometimes Fedora code gets incorporated into RHEL
releases after it’s been tested and possibly modified.

“Red Hat Enterprise Linux technology is derived from the Fedora
Project.”

According to here:

Here’s where I read “Roughly every third version of Red Hat Linux (RHL)
or Fedora Core (FC) forms the basis for a version of RHEL”:

Joe

Jim C. wrote:

On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 11:01:15PM +0100, Joe wrote:

Isn’t Debian notorious for taking a really long time to package and
release new software?

Yes, but that’s a good thing :slight_smile:
Debian values “stability” much higher than being on the cutting edge.

What do you want your production server environment to be? Stable, or
full of features? You can’t have both … if you think you can, you
have a different definition of “stable” to me … “stable” doesn’t just
mean “it works all the time”, it means “predictable and reliable”.

Is Rails even available as a Debian stable package? :wink:

Joe

On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 11:46:43PM +0100, Joe wrote:

Jim C. wrote:

Debian values “stability” much higher than being on the cutting edge.

Is Rails even available as a Debian stable package? :wink:

No, it comes from RubyGems :slight_smile:
And there are significant problems fitting RubyGems in with Debian’s
underlying structure …

Here’s some background detail :-
http://pkg-ruby-extras.alioth.debian.org/rubygems.html

-jim

Yeah debian does take a long time between stable distro releases.
But I am running a bunch of debian rails servers on sarge with only
one additional atp source from bougyman for lighttpd .deb package.

My tutorial up there is getting a bit dated and my process has been

very much streamilined from that tutorial. It realy is due for an
update. The newest version is in my book and will be available
shortly and I will update the free version as soon as the beta
release happens.

My servers are pretty much just for rails and svn so I don't need a

lot of newer packages. Sarge has everything I have needed expect
lighttpd in the apt packaging system. And since debian doesn’t
include stuff willy nilly it makes for a great solid server. I am
mainly concerned with stability and not the latest releases. Most of
whats in debian stable is the most recent stuff you need for rails.
If you want ruby1.8.4 I suggest you compile it from source with
checkinstall so apt will know about it.

And mail servers are a religious argument so I will not discuss that

here. To each his own.

Cheers-
-Ezra