Forum: Ruby on Rails OS for rails development: Windows vs. Mac?

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Nathan P. Verni (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:06
(Received via mailing list)
Caveat: this is not a discussion about *hosting* a rails app on windows.



Anyway...Macs are everywhere you look when researching rails (demo vids,
tutorials, and pictures from rails training classes).  I'm interested in
what the pros to using a Mac for rails development are (besides
textmate).  Is it more of a cultural thing, a what would 37 signals do
thing, is it a unix thing, or something else...
Kevin O. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:12
(Received via mailing list)
On Friday, May 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Nathan P. Verni wrote:
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
I recently switched to a mac for development because.

1. you can run nearly everything on it.  With bootcamp and parallels,
you can run windows too.  This makes cross-platform testing on a single
machine possible.
2. its fundamentally a *nix machine, which gives you some nice tools to
work with.
3. You can't get textmate on a PC.
4. peer pressure

The only thing I miss is TortoiseSVN.

_Kevin
Ben R. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:19
(Received via mailing list)
> The only thing I miss is TortoiseSVN.

Seconded.  I prefer development on my Mac hands down, but I find
myself at the command line doing svn commit, svn status, etc...
Tortoise is a really great tool for subversion.

~ Ben

On 19 May 2006 20:10:54 -0000, Kevin O.
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> >thing, is it a unix thing, or something else...
> 1. you can run nearly everything on it.  With bootcamp and parallels,
> --
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--
Ben R.
303-947-0446
http://www.benr75.com
Bill P. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:22
(Received via mailing list)
Have you looked at svnX?

http://www.lachoseinteractive.net/en/community/sub...


On May 19, 2006, at 1:16 PM, Ben R. wrote:

>>
>> >what the pros to using a Mac for rails development are (besides
>> >
>> 4. peer pressure
>>
>
- Bill
Kevin O. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:25
(Received via mailing list)
On Friday, May 19, 2006, at 1:22 PM, Bill P. wrote:
>> myself at the command line doing svn commit, svn status, etc...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> you can run windows too.  This makes cross-platform testing on a
>>>
>> Ben R.
>- Bill
>
>_______________________________________________
>Rails mailing list
>removed_email_address@domain.invalid
>http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

That is what I'm using now, but it's just not as easy (or as fast) as
TortoiseSVN.

_Kevin
Jón B. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:28
(Received via mailing list)
I found svnX to be acceptable. I set things up on the command line but
use svnX to commit, update, add etc.

http://www.lachoseinteractive.net/en/community/sub...


On 5/19/06, Ben R. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > you can run windows too.  This makes cross-platform testing on a single
> > Posted with http://DevLists.com.  Sign up and save your mailbox.
> http://www.benr75.com
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Al E. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 00:32
Kevin O. wrote:
> On Friday, May 19, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Nathan P. Verni wrote:

> 3. You can't get textmate on a PC.

>
> The only thing I miss is TortoiseSVN.

In my copy of TextMate, control-shift-A brings up a list of subversion
commands I can choose from. I only use a shell for the less-common ones.

--Al Evans
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:11
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,
I'm going to switch to a Mac (probably the Mac Mini - cost about $800)
-- any advice on the hardware/software/OS/Disk configuration and I'll be
connecting to a cable modem. I'm going to be doing Web D. using
RoR and MySQL.
Cheers,
Pat
Alain Pilon (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:19
My advices:
dont get the ram from Apple! Buy it from elsewhere and upgrade it
yourself, you will save some cash. Also, make sure you have at least
1gig.

Get an external HD, preferably FW sicne it is faster and will spare the
CPU.

Personnaly, I would get wireless internet and mouse/keyboard just
because I hate cables.

Software to get: Textmate and CSSEdit. Two great software and  must for
every webdev!

There are a lot of accessories made by third parties for the mini, look
around!

You should also consider the new macbook, they cost a bit more but are
way faster and cooler!

And welcome to the mac community!
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:23
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Pat, I would recommend getting a new MacBook if you're need
portability.

Peace,

-Conrad
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:38
(Received via mailing list)
Thank you for the good advice...I will take it.
I hope I can return the favor someday.
Cheers,
Pat
Jón B. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:44
(Received via mailing list)
No. This will not require much from your hardware.
If you want to use java based IDE or anything like that you might want
to get at least 1gb of ram since Java is a big memory hogger.

I'm mostly developing on a 12" PowerBookG4 with 512 mb ram. It's works
fine. I have the standard Textmate, Safari, iTerm and DarwinPorts
setup. If you get a Mac Mini or a MacBook now you will have at least 2
times faster computer so you should be ok.

On 5/20/06, Pat L. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> From: removed_email_address@domain.invalid
> Tortoise is a really great tool for subversion.
> > >
> > >
> single
> > --
> 303-947-0446
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>


--
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:47
(Received via mailing list)
Good evening Conrad,
I'm planning on implementing three applications using RoR.
I'll take a look at MacBook, but I really like the Mac Mini.
What do you think would be a good configuration - ie OSX, Tiger,
External Hard Drive, memory.
I currently have a LinkSys router but I'm going to go with a wireless
router (to connect to my cable modem) - I'm also looking at a wireless
mouse and keyboard.
I need the external hard drive for backups.
Good weekend,
Pat
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:50
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Nathan, your question is like asking what are the pros to developing
.net on windows.  Anyway, here are the pros to developing Rails on Mac
OS X:

1)  Mac OS X
2)  Unix based (FreeBSD + Mach Kernel)
3)  Many Unix and Commercial Applications
4)  It's the BEST commerical OS out there with the best hardware
     to go along with it.
5)  Wasn't Ruby and Rails born in the Unix environment?  If so, then
     this is another reason.

Peace,

-Conrad
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:50
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Pat, if you're buying RAM, don't get the less quality stuff to save
a
buck.  You can save money by going outside of Apple but you want to look
for
the same quality of RAM.

Peace,

-Conrad
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 04:54
(Received via mailing list)
No more Java or ASP.Net for me...I've really 'fallen in love' with RoR.
I'm planning on putting up three applications using it and MySql, wish
me luck.

I'm currently going thru the 'Pick Axe' book and the 'AWDWR' book and
for the first time in a long time, I'm really having a ball...

Good weekend and thanks for the advice.
Pat
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 05:06
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Pat, the black MacBook looks GREAT.  I saw it and simply said,
"WOW...".  Thus, I would highly look at getting a MacBook because you
can
add an external monitor when you're at home but allows you to be mobile
as
well.  For example, your clients would
like you to come to the office; laptop for demostration.  I would
recommend
the following development environment:

o MacBook (Mac OS X comes installed)
o Max out the memory to 2 GB
o  Get a network external harddrive
o  LinkSys router is good
    a)  connect the networt drive to the router
o  Add an AirPort Express for wireless (printing and connectivity to
internet)

Peace,

-Conrad
Rowan H. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 06:34
(Received via mailing list)
> 4. peer pressure
I'm going to go against the grain here.

I've done the textmate thing. Looks nice, but well, it's *just* a text
editor (ducks for cover). If you want full integration of your
workflow go no further than RadRails + Subclipse. In IDE versioning of
your files, code assist, data navigator, rails generators etc etc etc.
It's nice and has a lot of promise for the future for where it's
going.

My preference is actually WinXP (even though I can have either, it's
my preference). Maybe as I've lived on XP for so long.. and that
desktop gui performance just feels way more snappier than OSX. At
work, it's full time RadRails work on OSX (Tiger). At home it's
Windows + RadRails + PuTTY for managing servers, or Suse 10.1 which
I'm trying to get some love for to feel better about my open source
self.

OS X can be a right royal PITA for getting stuff compiled and working
on it, you'll find some stuff just doesn't work as advertised (eg
compiling graphicsmagick via darwinports). I'd far prefer to manage a
*nix box via PuTTY and keep windows for development.

That fantastic thing about Rails is you can run it on windows without
any pain.

That's my experience at any rate.
Rowan
Jake J. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 07:05
Pat L. wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm going to switch to a Mac (probably the Mac Mini - cost about $800)
> -- any advice on the hardware/software/OS/Disk configuration and I'll be
> connecting to a cable modem. I'm going to be doing Web D. using
> RoR and MySQL.
> Cheers,
> Pat

The mini is great.  I have one for doing some cross-platform
development.  Downside is that it can't drive two monitors.  I don't
know how the hell anyone gets stuff done with just one monitor.

   Jake
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 07:13
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Rowan, I haven't had any troubles compiling any of those things
that you mentioned.  Also, I don't have to go through the trouble of
installing another OS as in Suse 10.1 or another application like
Putty.  It comes standard out of the box.  However, I do agree with
you in regards to RadRails and that it has alot of promise.
Furthermore, I can create my own Rails tutorial videos, create
podcasts, and make
this available to the Rails community. In Mac OS X, it simply works.

Peace,

-Conrad
Jake J. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 07:16
Conrad T. wrote:
> Hey Nathan, your question is like asking what are the pros to developing
> .net on windows.  Anyway, here are the pros to developing Rails on Mac
> OS X:
>
> 1)  Mac OS X
> 2)  Unix based (FreeBSD + Mach Kernel)
> 3)  Many Unix and Commercial Applications
> 4)  It's the BEST commerical OS out there with the best hardware
>      to go along with it.
> 5)  Wasn't Ruby and Rails born in the Unix environment?  If so, then
>      this is another reason.
>
> Peace,
>
> -Conrad

Not to start a fight here, but none of these justify "developing Rails"
on a Mac.  They may argue Mac over PC.... but...

Here are my arguments that it doesn't matter:

1. Webrick runs on Mac and Windows just fine.
2. Eclipse / RadRails runs on both just fine.
3. SVN runs on both just fine.
   +Windows - TortoiseSVN is great.
4. +Mac - TextMate, though I haven't bought into that myself yet.
5. Ruby runs on both just fine -- therefore you get the generators,
Capistrano, etc.

Simple fact is that I do lots of other stuff on a computer.  Most of
that stuff (in my case) makes it more reasonable to stick with a PC.  I
really enjoy using the Mac, but I'm not going to force that decision.
If you already have a PC and are comfortable on it, I think it would be
silly to change horses.  Both platforms have their quirks.

A Mac will not make your application any better.

   Jake
Rowan H. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 07:28
(Received via mailing list)
Exactly and if you're comfortable on a PC then you needn't fall for
the peer pressure thing :) Too many religious nerdy internet flame
wars can start over this debate.

I was just chucking my 2c worth in the ring that windows is very
viable for development on.
Maybe in a year or two's time with OS X I may be one of those
uber-nerdy nix cli proficient dudes that I'm more productive under
OSX, but (again for me), I'm happier under windows and that = more
productive. All the tools I use are the same if not better under
windows so that makes sense for me.

Where I *do* see benefit is under really tricky little shell scripts
managing your servers rsyncing/scping all those little bitty files
etc. But if you're doing all the you likely wouldn't be needing to ask
the question :)

R
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 08:05
(Received via mailing list)
hey Jake, you can work with whatever platform you feel comfortable
with but please don't ask questions why people use one platform over
another.  If the developer
writes X on a platform, then don't expect it to be on every other
platform.  Next,
those were my reasons for enjoying development on Mac OS X and it's not
your
reason to switch.  I have alot of Unix tools that I'll never see
native on the XP
platform and most wouldn't work anyways because of the way that XP
poorly
does memory management and I have been assured that these things will be
resolved by MS Support with Windows Vista.  Finally, I do alot of video
editing
with Final Cut Pro, compositing with Shake, and animation work with Maya
and
these applications either don't exist and/or don't run well with XP.

Peace,

-Conrad
Tom M. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 08:57
(Received via mailing list)
The Mini is great, but go for a portable instead.

2.5 years ago I thought I was the last person to get a portable.

I had computers everywhere I worked, so why would I need one?

I bought it because I was traveling. Now I'm no longer traveling
as much, but there's NO WAY I'd go back to a desktop system.

Having all of your stuff where ever you are is fantastic.

--
-- Tom M.
Steve R. (Guest)
on 2006-05-20 09:45
(Received via mailing list)
The little bitty files etc. are part and parcel of that annoying
development
thing. rsync and scp are important tools and supported spottily under
Windows. If you are deploying to a Windows server, it makes sense to run
Windows. If you are deploying to a *nix server, you will run into
problems
-- probably with permissions -- that you simply couldn't have foreseen.
And
it will happen exactly when you promised to show the app to your client.

I've developed happily on Windows for years. I know how to make Windows
run
from the command line. Heck, I even know the #@$& PC BIOS. But I still
develop Web apps that target *nix platforms on a Mac. I've just been
bitten
too many times by the "I'm going to just make one little change here..."
bug
that leaves a permission bit unset on the server and you know the rest.

Of course with Bootcamp and Parallel, you don't have to make a choice,
do
you?

That's my $.02 :)
--
View this message in context:
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Joshua B. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 00:07
(Received via mailing list)
I'm in the process of switching my development over to osx.
So far the experience has been great, and I feel like it's a step
forward.
Unfortunately there are still a few pretty big annoyances.

1. The key bindings that I use the most don't exist. No control arrow to
jump between words, or home/end for lines.
Textmate can be configured for them to work, but I'm having a hard time
getting around everything else without them.

2. No tortoise svn. There's a port (http://scplugin.tigris.org/), but
it's
inactive, and hasn't been built for intel chips.

3. Navicat for osx sucks comapred to the windows version.

4. No split panes in textmate.
Jón B. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 00:22
(Received via mailing list)
On 5/20/06, Joshua B. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> I'm in the process of switching my development over to osx.
> So far the experience has been great, and I feel like it's a step forward.
> Unfortunately there are still a few pretty big annoyances.
>
> 1. The key bindings that I use the most don't exist. No control arrow to
> jump between words, or home/end for lines.
> Textmate can be configured for them to work, but I'm having a hard time
> getting around everything else without them.

Well.. In my textmate I am able to switch between words by holding
down ALT and using the arrows. Going to end of line is done with CTRL
and arrows keys.

>
> 2. No tortoise svn. There's a port (http://scplugin.tigris.org/ ), but it's
> inactive, and hasn't been built for intel chips.

svnX is nowhere close to being as good as Tortoise. But the only thing
I use really is add, commit and update. And svnX is fast and snappy. I
at least have found it to be prefectly acceptable

>
> 3. Navicat for osx sucks comapred to the windows version.

You have to realise that switching between operating system means that
you can't use excactly the same software. As far as to mysql goes then
I firmly believe that you don't need much software for it. I think
it's best to learn to use migrations to fully use the power of RoR.
Nevertheless it's nice to have a mysql client for when you need to
delete many rows or make minor changes. But in that I prefer
simplicity over features so I am absolutely in love with yourSQL.

More SQL clients:
http://www.versiontracker.com/php/search.php?mode=...

>
> 4. No split panes in textmate.

Totally agree. But the great diff support minimized my need for it.

>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> removed_email_address@domain.invalid
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>


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Steve R. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 05:14
(Received via mailing list)
The key bindings issue is one you will either have to solve by remapping
(and
TextMate observes these remappings quite well) or by learning the Mac
standard keys. After using Windows and only Windows since 3.0, I got a
Mac
in '97 but used Macs only for graphics. I switched my Web development
over
to the Mac full time only in the last five months -- I'm really not
using
the PC anymore except for testing. What's weird is that I so completely
retrained myself that it seems as strange to do all the Windows key
combinations now as it did when I first started using the Mac key
mappings.

I've tried Navicat for the Mac and it just wasn't made-for-Mac software.
Try
CocoaMySQL.

http://cocoamysql.sourceforge.net

Oh, and please consider migrations instead of the GUI. They are so much
more
powerful because you can run the migration and test it on you dev
machine,
then run the exact same migration on your staging and/or production
server.

And yeah, split panes would be a great feature for TM.
--
View this message in context:
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Peter M. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 05:23
(Received via mailing list)
Mac vs. Windows vs. BSD/Linux

This seems like a wiki topic. It's only a stub

http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Developmen...
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 19:09
(Received via mailing list)
Thanks Conrad.I'll take a look at it.I'm going to make a purchase in
June.
Pat L. (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 19:22
(Received via mailing list)
Tom,
Thanks for the advice...I'll take a look at the portable...I'm planning
on making a purchase in June.
Good week,
Pat
Peter De Berdt (Guest)
on 2006-05-21 21:34
(Received via mailing list)
On 21 May 2006, at 03:11, s.ross wrote:

> the PC anymore except for testing. What's weird is that I so
> completely
> retrained myself that it seems as strange to do all the Windows key
> combinations now as it did when I first started using the Mac key
> mappings.
>
> I've tried Navicat for the Mac and it just wasn't made-for-Mac
> software. Try
> CocoaMySQL.
>
> http://cocoamysql.sourceforge.net

If you plan on using the latest version of MySQL, I believe you need
to use the latest beta (I'm using it with success): http://
cocoamysql.sourceforge.net/beta/CocoaMySQL_0.7b3.zip

Best regards

Peter De Berdt
Jason (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 01:23
(Received via mailing list)
Hmm... considering the switch...

So what are the keyboard shortcuts when editing text (in any standard
text
window not just under text mate under OS X) for
1. Select word
2. Delete a word (Backwards and forwards)
3. Move the cursor to the end of a line or the start
4. Move the cursor jumping per word

Is there something you can get for OS X to provide these sort of
keyboard
shortcuts? It would seem ODD that they left this out of the standard OS
feature
set since entering text is a common thing.
Brian H. (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 01:36
(Received via mailing list)
On May 23, 2006, at 05:16 PM, Jason wrote:
> Hmm... considering the switch...
>
> So what are the keyboard shortcuts when editing text (in any
> standard text
> window not just under text mate under OS X) for

There's no guarantee that all OS X text editors will follow these
short cuts, although the vast majority of them do. For all apps that
use the Cocoa text editing features, you get these automatically.

> 1. Select word

Cursor at start of word: shift + right-arrow
Cursor at end of word: shift + left-arrow

> 2. Delete a word (Backwards and forwards)

Backwards: cmd (aka. "open apple") + delete/backspace (depending on
your keyboard labels)
Forwards: cmd + del (the key that's next to home/end on full-size
keyboards). This one is really hard to do on most laptop keyboards,
since they don't normally have this key...

> 3. Move the cursor to the end of a line or the start

End: cmd + right-arrow
Start: cmd + left-arrow

> 4. Move the cursor jumping per word

Forwards: option (aka. alt) + right-arrow
Backwards: option + left-arrow

> Is there something you can get for OS X to provide these sort of
> keyboard
> shortcuts? It would seem ODD that they left this out of the
> standard OS feature
> set since entering text is a common thing.

I guess I haven't been following this thread closely... who said
these keyboard shortcuts where left out? As I mentioned above, these
are available, by default, for any app that uses the built-in text
editing features of the Cocoa application framework. If the
programmer chooses not to use this, that certainly can't be the fault
of the OS maker, can it?

-Brian
Peter De Berdt (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 02:26
(Received via mailing list)
> Forwards: cmd + del (the key that's next to home/end on full-size
> keyboards). This one is really hard to do on most laptop keyboards,
> since they don't normally have this key...

On my old TiBook, the Del key can be obtained by pressing Fn
+Backspace. So it's just one key extra.

Best regards

Peter De Berdt
Phillip H. (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 02:32
(Received via mailing list)
> On my old TiBook, the Del key can be obtained by pressing Fn
> +Backspace. So it's just one key extra.

Same on my AiBook. My personal favourites are control-k and control-y,
though you need to know emacs to know what they do. Sometimes multiple
cuts get confusing though...

An important thing for Windows users: home and end don't work the
same, they skip to the start and end of the document. Use command+left
arrow and command+right arrow for this, or control-a and control-e if
you like your UNIX.
--
Phillip H.
http://www.sitharus.com/
Conrad T. (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 02:45
(Received via mailing list)
Hey Phillip, these are my favorites being that I'm a long time emacs and
xemacs user.

Peace,

-Conrad
Brent J. (Guest)
on 2006-05-24 04:00
(Received via mailing list)
I use SmartSVN to access my subversion repository.  They have both
Mac, Windows and Linux clients.  I'm on a Windows platform so I use
their Win version.  I used SmartCVS for the longest time and recently
switched to Subversion so I was pleased that they have an SVN version
of their client.  But as for development of the Rails application
itself I use Linux (CentOS).

- Brent

On 19 May 2006 20:24:51 -0000, Kevin O.
This topic is locked and can not be replied to.