Forum: Ruby on Rails where'd we come from?

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John McGrath (Guest)
on 2006-01-16 20:44
(Received via mailing list)
I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the
OO
world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO
scripting worlds?

Reason I ask is that I'm finding Rails a blast and very productive, but
I
think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during
two
years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it
took
me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around
those.

I'm wondering, what's the learning curve like for someone being exposed
to
OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average,
does
it take to feel comfortable?

John
Bill P. (Guest)
on 2006-01-16 20:56
(Received via mailing list)
I was/am a very bad perl coder but the RoR conventions are way easier
for me to comprehend than perls "Do it however you want" mentality.
Granted I am still a bad RoR programmer but I can get things to a
working stage much faster with RoR which makes it more fun to code,
which will hopefully lead me to be a better coder.

I knew nothing of OO programming, other than the concept, before
diving into RoR.

On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:42 AM, John McGrath wrote:

> I'm wondering, what's the learning curve like for someone being
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> removed_email_address@domain.invalid
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails



- Bill
Will B. (Guest)
on 2006-01-16 21:20
(Received via mailing list)
I've spent several years as a jack-of-all-trades sort of programmer,
doing
everything from back-end Perl scripting and Java applications to PHP web
applications to Websphere applications using Struts.

RoR has by far been the most pleasant of these development experiences,
partially due to the framework, but also due to the elegance of Ruby.
Gregory S. (Guest)
on 2006-01-16 21:38
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 10:42:41AM -0800, John McGrath wrote:
} I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the
OO
} world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO
} scripting worlds?

There's a third option (and probably more, actually). The languages I
have
learned, as complete and in as close to chronological order as I can
manage:

 1) AppleSoft BASIC
 2) Logo
 3) Pascal
 4) Bourne shell scripting
 5) C
 6) sed and awk
 7) C++
 8) tcsh customization (not scripting, quite)
 9) MIPS assembly
10) ml
11) Java
12) 486 assembly
13) Lisp
14) JavaScript (a.k.a. VRMLscript and ECMAscript)
15) vi/vim scripting
16) SPARC assembly
17) SQL
18) LaTeX
19) C++ again (the standard had changed radically, adding generics)
20) AppleScript (somewhat)
21) Objective-C
22) C#
23) VB.NET
24) Ruby

Notably absent are Scheme, OCAML, Haskell, SmallTalk (though I did learn
a
very little bit), Perl, and Python. When I say I learned one of these
languages, except as noted, it means I did some significant level of
work
in them (and I don't necessarily mean paid work). Of them, my favorites
are
probably the sh/sed/awk triumvirate, C#, C++, and Ruby. MIPS assembly
and
ml have a certain elegance to them, but they aren't too useful.

} Reason I ask is that I'm finding Rails a blast and very productive,
but I
} think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during
two
} years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it
took
} me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around
those.
}
} I'm wondering, what's the learning curve like for someone being
exposed to
} OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average,
does
} it take to feel comfortable?

The point is that I'm from the "lots of languages, lots of paradigms"
world. It took me perhaps 16 hours to learn Ruby well enough to create a
small Ruby on Rails app to kick the tires. Mind you, those 16 hours were
spread out over the course of a few months, including the pickaxe book
as
bathroom reading and idly poking through Why's Poignant Guide. I just
ordered the Agile Rails book last week, so I expect to get deeper into
it
soon.

Ultimately, there's nothing new under the sun in language design. Even
the
seemingly novel plan to add query language support to C# is just a
better
implementation of embedded SQL. Knowing awk, ml/Lisp, and Objective-C is
sufficient to grasp Ruby. The advances in languages have everything to
do
with incresing how much I can express clearly and precisely in each line
of
code; it's a quantitative, not qualitative, difference.

If I were dictator of the (software development) world, everyone who
wanted
to program would have to learn (and use for something significant) at
least
ten languages, including C, some kind of assembly, some true functional
language (e.g. Haskell, Scheme, ml), SQL, some scripting language
(e.g. sh/sed/awk, Ruby, etc.), and some "mainstream" OO language (e.g.
C++,
Java, C#, Obj-C). Learning a first language is hard. Learning a second
language is sometimes even harder. Learning a fifth language is pretty
easy. Learning a tenth is trivial. Learning a 20th is a lark. I try to
learn a new language every couple of years. Aside from keeping me
relevant,
it helps me understand the languages I already know even better.

} John
--Greg
Robert Stehwien (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 02:06
(Received via mailing list)
> I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO
> world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO
> scripting worlds?
>

I spent the majority of my career (10ish years) as a C/C++ Windows
application developer with a heavy emphasis on OO design.  During that
time I made two commercial applications using Java (early web
applications using applets and servlets back in 2000) and have written
a few things in Perl and Python.  My interest in Rails started because
I was interested in Ruby (5 being an object was compelling for pure
OO) and getting back into web development.

Rails encapsulates everything I might learn J2EE, PHP, and AJAX
separately for in one framework/language, so it seems like a good
start.  Using a solid MVC framework that hooks into databases is a
huge plus in my mind.

Right now I'm half way through the Rails book and loving it so far.
Once I'm done with the book, I'll try writing a few apps of my own to
see how well it works for me from scratch.  In a month I should be
able to answer the questions a little better but so far my main
thought is "I wouldn't mind doing this for a living".

--Robert Stehwien
Marcelo Bello (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 02:27
(Received via mailing list)
Came from Java + Struts + <name a framework>. Tired of xml configs...
and
tired of feeling bad for not knowing every single Java Framework out
there
(and there are LOTs of them). In the end, all those frameworks are the
result of people trying to fix a bureocratic language.

I am also a skilled C programmer.

Ruby and RoR looks very nice... makes me wonder if I should also learn
Python.

Regards,

Marcelo
Tom M. (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 04:43
(Received via mailing list)
On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:42 AM, John McGrath wrote:

> I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of
> the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design
> or non-OO scripting worlds?

Pure OO Perl was my last stop.

> I'm wondering, what's the learning curve like for someone being
> exposed to OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long,
> on the average, does it take to feel comfortable?

It took me a few weeks to feel pretty comfortable.

I still struggle with Ruby at times, though.
Jake J. (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 05:50
Hm.  I'm a hardware designer.  Primarily with a DSP, communications
theory, and coding theory background.  I've dabbled with programming for
a long time but my primary languages are:

VHDL, Verilog, C++

Best tool for the job.  For this one, it happens to be Ruby, I guess.

   Jake
Russ McBride (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 09:26
(Received via mailing list)
How do I do this (but, you know, have it work)?:

<%= render(:partial => "login") unless  :action_name  == "new" %>

...that is, how do I initiate a render unless the initiating action
is called "new"?
Ryan H. (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 09:35
(Received via mailing list)
On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Russ McBride wrote:

>
> How do I do this (but, you know, have it work)?:
>
> <%= render(:partial => "login") unless  :action_name  == "new" %>
>
> ...that is, how do I initiate a render unless the initiating action
> is called "new"?



Probably better to use a before_filter like this:
   before_filter :login_required, :except => [:new]


But your way would be:
   <%= render(:partial => "login") unless @params[:action] == "new" %>
Jules (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 13:09
I came from PHP, but I tried to create my own MVC framework in PHP.

Then I leared Ruby, and I liked it, but I saw Rails later.

So from PHP 1/2 OOP -> Ruby -> Rails
Richard L. (Guest)
on 2006-01-17 15:42
(Received via mailing list)
John McGrath wrote:
> I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the
> OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or
> non-OO scripting worlds?

I started with Basic on the Spectrum and then Amiga computers.
Got hooked on the web and Perl and used that for a few years before
discovering PHP around version 3.

I worked for a 'new media' company before going to Uni and worked a fair
bit with Flash and whatever version of Actionscript it was back then.
Bares little resemblance to the AS code of today though.

Went to Uni to do computer science and got stuck into Java, C, C++, C#,
and a bit of Scheme. But still most of my day to day work was in PHP4
and I worked with that commercial since I left Uni right up till Rails
came out and 'showed me the way'.

After spending years trying to bend PHP to OOP styles and making my own
frameworks to use in mine and my clients' projects, Rails was a breath
of fresh air. It's exactly the direction I was moving in with my PHP
frameworks and many of the concepts are the same, so it was very easy to
make the change.

I'm now back at uni for some reason, I came back to do a Masters in
Management, and working on a Rails project which I hope to launch in a
few weeks time.

It's been quite a ride!
Giovanni Giorgi (Guest)
on 2006-01-18 20:43
(Received via mailing list)
On 16/gen/06, at 19:42, John McGrath wrote:

> I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of
> the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design
> or non-OO scripting worlds?
I started with a Commodre Vic20, Basic V2.
then I pass to C/64, then Pascal and finally to C Language.
At university I learned also HTML, and I liked the web.
I saw Java in the 1995/6 and when I got my master Thesis in 2000, I
worked only in Java (I had used a bit of PHP for two months).
Now I am a Leder Software Architecht in a J2EE/Struts/Hibernate/Ajax
project and a bit tired of it.

RoR is nice to use, true fast in respect of Java (and xml-ize sugar :)
For my 2 cents, visit my site:
  http://daitangio.homeip.net/
Byeeee

--
"Like the creators of sitcoms or junk food or package tours, Java's
designers were consciously designing a product for people not as smart
as them."  ::  paul graham
[   [  [ JJ ]  ]   ]
Vivek K. (Guest)
on 2006-01-19 09:47
(Received via mailing list)
On 1/17/06, John McGrath <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
>
> I'm curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO
> world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO
> scripting worlds?
>
> I am a C++ OOP guy with little bit of experience in perl and absolutely no
experience in web development.(actually I am on the other side,web
browser
development).I decided to start with PHP but somehow I didnt like  PHP's
basic philopshy of mixing logic inside html.I tried some templating
engines
but finally decided to use Rails..I guess anyone with a reasonably OOP
background would not like anything other the MVC pattern which rails
does so
well.
and about ruby,unlike perl I feel i am actually learning a programming
language and not some tricks and hacks ;-)
Vivek
Jens A. (Guest)
on 2006-01-21 16:40
(Received via mailing list)
I've been programming since I was a kid (right as the very first
personal computers started appearing). I started in BASIC, of course,
and have gone throughPascal, Smalltalk-80, C, C++ and Java. I now
program mostly in Objective-C. I've dabbled in some other languages
including FORTH, TeX, 68000 and PPC assembly, and more recently Ruby
and Lua. More details at <http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2004/04/my-geek-
history>

I learned PHP last year and wrote a web app in it, but got tired of
the language partway through. (PHP is approachable for quick hacks,
but as a language it's a real mess.) I've also gained a fair bit of
experience with template languages, SQL, object/relational mappings
and Ajax in the past two years through working on Safari RSS (which
is implemented very much like a web app.)

So yes, getting into Rails has been very nice, ever since I got the
Agile Web D. book to fill the gap between the glib tutorials
and the scary API docs. Overall it gives me the same warm fuzzy
feeling that Apple's Cocoa frameworks do: the sense that it was
written by people who have written the kinds of programs I'm writing,
and includes the solutions to the problems I'm likely to run into.

--Jens
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