hello everyone, my name is "arnuld". I have only a very small question regarding RUBY. I am asking since i am not mature programmer. I will be as brief as i can in explaning my problem.here is my MAIN-question: -- Can a newbie understand the RUBY when everyone knows RUBY is the PURE Object-Oriented-language? -- before you answer this question please know my little-programming-history & some more so that your answer can be personalised according to my mental-level & my needs. here are the points: 1. I was a "sales-man" working with the Standard-Chartered Bank's personal-loan branch. I also sold Eureka-Forbes water purifiers.but i failed at both. i think the reason was i never loved my job. i hated it. I also tried call-center, as you know INDIA is drawing a large part of call-center industry towards itself. i failed there. i also tried hotel job both as a waiter & as a front-office executive but also failed there. also i have only 56% markes in my Bachelor of Science (with computer applications).Inspite of a computer based degree i do know any programming languages. worse even after completing my graduation i did not know that a computer runs on an operating system instead i thought it runs on WINDOWS and there is nothing else to run computers & here is more i have some letters and letters like C, C++, HTML, DHTML, BASIC, Fundamentals of JAVA, RDBMS onto my certificate, hence I am a jobless person today. i failed everywhere and i always believed i should not have failed. but there are reasons behind this. now i am a completely different person. I entered into programming only for the "love of programming". love has power. love has intimacy. I feel intimacy with programming and i felt it most intense when i see the syntax of RUBY. sometimes my family members found me sleeping on the chair in the front of my computer (a very few times it happened). I do not know what exactly is that but what i know for certain is that it all started with movie "HACKERS" that i watched on HBO. anyway i do not want to waste your time, we can talk about it in another article, right now lets get backto the point -> newbie wants to learn RUBY. 2. I am not a pure newbie, I read the following books: a.) "How to think like a computer scientist - learning with python" - by Allen B. Downey, Jeffrey Elkner and Chris M.. I understood 85% of the book, this was the 1st book i pursued and i was just confused when i came to the chapters on 'classes & objects', 'queues' & 'trees'. then i left the book. but even then i read those chapters again and again 3-4 times and got an idea about Object-Oriented programming and even if its difficult i liked it. b.) "Learning to programme" a tutorial - by Alan Gauld did not read much here as i hated his style of mixing VB, JAVA & PYTHON. c.) "Non-Programmers tutorial" - by Josh-Cogliati. again based on python. understood and solved every exercise of it. d.) "An introduction to programming in Emacs-LISP" by Robert. J Chassell. (from GNU-press) a great book on how my favourite text editor "GNU Emacs" is implemented. Understood every part of it but stopped reading in the miidle because i found something more-powerfull & more-interesting, that is next book. e.) "How to design programes" - MITpress (@htdp.org) this was the book because of which i left my favourite GNU-press book. i am still reading it even when i am writing this very email. I fell in love with this book too as this book has solved all of problems i was facing with programming from the very beginning . I have just finished the 1st part of the book and will complete it in next 3-3.5 months. solved 98% of the exercises untill current reading.It uses SCHEME language to teach how to desigh programs. In the meantime i also learned "GNU project", "A brief history of hackerdom", free-softwares & open-soure revolution. After all of this I completely abondoned proprietary-softwares.I will prefer to die rather than working on proprietary-products. presently i am writing this email in GNU Emacs on debian "sarge". Now you have seen my mental-level on how much i understand things, how much i do not & either death or Open-Source. Now this time after i will finish HTDP i want to go again differently (pragmatic), that is the first reason of choosing RUBY. 2nd is "love", same as i have with programming. at the time when whole world is drowning into PYTHON & C, i don't know why but RUBY is attracting me like a magnet attracts iron. I do not even know one language completely but still I am not able to stop my dreams which contain RUBY syntax. i searched for RUBY books. I selected "programming RUBY - pragmatic programmers guide" by Dave T., Chad F., Andy H. (2nd edition). I read some reviews @ amazon.com those reviews have put some fear into my mind about RUBY. 2 of them told me this horrifying thing: -- Being pure object-oriented language, ruby's more complex than perl or python, you must have decent grasp of O-O design,& design patterns to use it effectively, and you have to spend time learning how the object model descends from Object, Module, Class classes and Kernel, Comparable, Enumerable modules to know where to find classes/methods referenced.-- now this is thing that i think i will not be able to understand. Does that mean: 1.) A person with little programming knowledge can not learn RUBY? 1.) Does he need to be such an experienced-object-oriented-programmer to understand RUBY? 2.) If it is true then why CHRIS-PINE wrote an introduction to programming using RUBY? It is my MAIN question asked in 3-parts: Can a newbie understand the RUBY when everyone knows RUBY is the PURE Object-Oriented-language? One of my known-persons is living in ENGLAND and he will come back to INDIA in the march-month. I am relatively a poor-newbie, worse even jobless. he asked me to give me the name of the book i intend to by, he will bring bring the book here& hence shipment charges can be saved. that way I can save the money i do not have. if i do not give him the name then he will not buy and after this he will come back after 1 year and that's too long. that is why i am asking this question even when i have 3 months of time to finish the current-book. here are the 3 different paths & i can take one of them: PATH-1. HTDP -> scheme programming-language - by R. Kent Dybvig -> SCHEME based project-work -> -> PYTHON-intro -> PYTHON -advanced -> project -work on python -> RUBY-DOC.org -> -> RUBY-pragmtic-guide by dave thomas -> some project-work on RUBY PATH-2. HTDP -> RUBY-DOC.org -> RUBY-pragmtic-guide by dave thomas -> some project-work on RUBY PATH-3 HTDP-> suggested by YOU One-more REASON of asking for help: by DEC-2006 , i want to start earning and become independent as my father is going to be retired by the end of 2007.right now i am 25. at the same time i also do not want to put myself with wrong programming-language choices. Thanks a lot for having such a patience as my mail went lengthy. may you provide a reasonable answer based on your experience with programming? I will really feel grateful for your help. "arnuld"
on 2006-01-16 12:29
on 2006-01-16 12:51
The first edition of the book is available for free here: http://www.rubycentral.com/book/ So I suggest you to just try it. Judging from your skill level I don't think you should have much/any problem getting started on ruby. And if you really like ruby then it will probably be even easier :) Edwin
on 2006-01-16 13:05
arnuld fraser wrote: > hello everyone, > > my name is "arnuld". I have only a very small question regarding RUBY. I am > asking since i am not mature programmer. I will be as brief as i can in > explaning my problem.here is my MAIN-question: > > -- Can a newbie understand the RUBY when everyone knows RUBY is the PURE > Object-Oriented-language? -- --big snip-- > Now you have seen my mental-level on how much i understand things, how much > i do not & either death or Open-Source. Now this time after i will finish > HTDP i want to go again differently (pragmatic), that is the first reason of > choosing RUBY. 2nd is "love", same as i have with programming. at the time > when whole world is drowning into PYTHON & C, i don't know why but RUBY is > attracting me like a magnet attracts iron. I do not even know one language > completely but still I am not able to stop my dreams which contain RUBY > syntax. --more snip-- > > 1.) A person with little programming knowledge can not learn RUBY? No worries. Ruby (not RUBY btw.) is IMO very well suited for a beginner. If Ruby somehow resonates with the way you think, as seems to be the case, then I would consider it your best choice. > > 1.) Does he need to be such an experienced-object-oriented-programmer to > understand RUBY? --snip again-- I am teaching my 9 year old daughter programming using Ruby. I don't teach much theory (basically it's just: everything is an object, and you can send messsages to it). So far, she managed her first toy projects just fine. The understanding of the underlying concepts will come with experience. My advice is, not to wait for any book to arrive (it certainly helps to have a book by your side, but it is not necessary), but use the available online resources for now (including this list). Start on your first simple projects. Get experience. Enjoy yourself. HTH, Michael
on 2006-01-16 18:16
> 2.) If it is true then why CHRIS-PINE wrote an introduction to programming > using RUBY? "Programming Ruby" assumes you are already a programmer. If you have not done (much) programming before, it's probably a bit too hard. I though it would be nice to have a book for people who want to learn to program, but who aren't yet ready for "Programming Ruby". So I wrote one. :) Cheers, Chris
on 2006-01-17 03:31
> online resources for now (including this list). Start on your first simple > ISIS Information Systems Austria > tel: +43 2236 27551-219, fax: +43 2236 21081 > e-mail: email@example.com > Visit our Website: www.isis-papyrus.com > > Hey Michael, Thanks for your answer. from the way you have provided me the answer, it shows that you have spent a good time on reading my email, then thinking and writing-in the solution. i got your point. newbie says "thanks a lot for investing your time into my career" have any more ideas for a newbie? "arnuld"
on 2006-01-18 06:22
I'm a newbie too. I've hacked around with PHP a bit but 'til Ruby I'd never really understood OO programming. I've worked through the Agile Web D. with Rails, I acquired some knowledge, but seemed to be missing a full understanding of how it worked together. I worked though Chris P.'s Learn to Program and I can't recommend it highly enough. http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/ ** I bought the new hard copy too, but the above tutorial is fantastic. It really filled in the missing pieces. I think you mentioned it above but you did not mention if you had worked through it. One thing I noticed when I read your original email was that you seemed to be doing a lot of 'reading' of programming books. I'm not sure that that is enough to acquire the skill of programming any more than reading a book about guitar will give you the skill of a musician. You have to do the work to get the skills. You seem to like Ruby, so stick with it and be sure to do the exercises in Chris P.'s tutorial. Remember to have fun, B
on 2006-01-18 12:06
> > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > Hey B, thanks a lot for your time. you did provide some important information.In the last I got your "guitar-point". One final thing i want to know, not about Ruby. I want to know whether real-life projects prefer scheme over LISP or not? thanks "arnuld"