_why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why
on 2009-08-20 22:10
on 2009-08-20 23:20
From: "Karl von Laudermann" <doodpants@mailinator.com> > > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why Wow. Hope he's OK. One comment on the page above did give me a good laugh: "He changed his name to _when and is working on perl 6." :) Regards, Bill
on 2009-08-21 07:45
On Aug 20, 2:08 pm, Karl von Laudermann <doodpa...@mailinator.com>
wrote:
> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets!http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why
Among the terrible consequences of this, one of the lesser but still
notable is that someone with the power needs to edit ruby-lang.org to
remove the link to tryruby.hobix.com
on 2009-08-21 08:14
wow, how sad. that just ruined my day. he really was an idol to me. he's one of the main reasons I even tried ruby in the first place. I just love everything he did... Sure hope he's still out there and coming back some day...
on 2009-08-21 08:48
Phrogz wrote: > On Aug 20, 2:08 pm, Karl von Laudermann <doodpa...@mailinator.com> > wrote: >> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets!http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > Among the terrible consequences of this, one of the lesser but still > notable is that someone with the power needs to edit ruby-lang.org to > remove the link to tryruby.hobix.com Done. James
on 2009-08-21 09:40
Op vrijdag 21-08-2009 om 01:13 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef Fabian Streitel: > [Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.] > > wow, how sad. that just ruined my day. he really was an idol to me. > he's one of the main reasons I even tried ruby in the first place. > I just love everything he did... > > Sure hope he's still out there and coming back some day... He also thought me the basics of ruby... Even so much I bought The Ruby Way, and now use ruby at work.... so sad to see him go.
on 2009-08-21 10:03
From: "Fabian Streitel" <karottenreibe@googlemail.com> > > wow, how sad. that just ruined my day. he really was an idol to me. > he's one of the main reasons I even tried ruby in the first place. > I just love everything he did... Yes. _why's poignant guide and tryruby.hobix.com instantly became two of the most awesome resources for introducing friends and acquaintances to ruby. The idea that they might truly be gone has not sunk in. > Sure hope he's still out there and coming back some day... me2 /me watches "The Least Surprised - Time dot now" (had it on my hard drive since 2005, hope it's OK that I uploaded it) http://cila-search.net/~billk/ruby/_why/The%20Leas... <3 Bill
on 2009-08-21 10:24
Karl von Laudermann wrote: > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > sometimes hard to accept, but: people come and people go. no doubt, his work is outstanding. And this will last - no matter, if he had stopped or will come back in the future. But making a super hero out of a normal person and all the other personality cult stuff seems to be a bad thing to me. I hope, it was his free decision. Things like that can always happen, even matz could simple start doing totally different things right now ('Gone fishing...'). Reminds me of Guy Decoux. Anyway, time to work harder, eh?
on 2009-08-21 13:18
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Ralf Mueller<ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> wrote: > Things like that can always happen, even matz could simple start doing > totally different things right now ('Gone fishing...'). > Reminds me of Guy Decoux. Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his work before leaving. That's not consistent with "people come and go". I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... -greg
on 2009-08-21 13:28
2009/8/21 Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>: > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Ralf Mueller<ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> wrote: > >> Things like that can always happen, even matz could simple start doing >> totally different things right now ('Gone fishing...'). >> Reminds me of Guy Decoux. > > Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his > work before leaving. Â That's not consistent with "people come and > go". Â I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... > Still it is completely your decision if you pack up your stuff and take it with you, leave it in the apartment or throw it away. The distinction between pack up your stuff and set your apartment on fire is not so clear in the digital world. Sure, taking down everything at once is somewhat odd but it's exactly the somewhat odd side of _why's work which is so inspiring. And even if his site is no longer around many have seen it and it has undoubtedly somewhat changed their perception of ruby the language, programming in general, the life and everything. Thanks Michal
on 2009-08-21 13:34
Gregory Brown wrote: > Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his > work before leaving. That's not consistent with "people come and > go". I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... > > -greg Yes, I know. And I'd rather see his work in some others hands than put out of the community. But I consider it as his prefered way to 'go'. After all, it's HIS work, and he took that decisioin.
on 2009-08-21 13:49
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ralf Mueller<ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> wrote: > But I consider it as his prefered way to 'go'. After all, it's HIS work, and > he took that decisioin. This is all true. I'm just saying that this didn't happen with Guy Decoux, and I can hedge my bets that it won't happen with Matz. So I think those are bad examples.
on 2009-08-21 13:51
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Michal Suchanek<hramrach@centrum.cz> wrote: > Sure, taking down everything at once is somewhat odd but it's exactly > the somewhat odd side of _why's work which is so inspiring. And even > if his site is no longer around many have seen it and it has > undoubtedly somewhat changed their perception of ruby the language, > programming in general, the life and everything. Yeah, I just wasn't sure if the OP was aware of what happened given what he had said about 'this is just something that can happen when people come and go'. I used the example of setting the apartment on fire because it's violent, and it affects other people, not just me. That's closer to what happened with _why. The upside of course is unlike my apartment, _why's code can (and has been) forked and mirrored: http://whymirror.github.com/
on 2009-08-21 14:20
Gregory Brown wrote: > > This is all true. I'm just saying that this didn't happen with Guy > Decoux, and I can hedge my bets that it won't happen with Matz. So I > think those are bad examples. > > Sorry, I didn't meant Guy Decoux to be seen as a direct example. As far as I know, he was killed in an accident. But he was important member of the ruby community, too. regarding matz or any one of us: Things happen, and often enough we do not pull the strings. So don't be too sure. I personally think, it should drive our dedication.
on 2009-08-21 15:16
Sad, and somewhat puzzling he didn't just allow people to say goodbye before leaving or something. :( Apparently his youtube channel is still online: http://www.youtube.com/user/whytheluckystiff And Ruby Inside has a list of all the stuff that's still there, or mirrored in some way: http://www.rubyinside.com/why-the-lucky-stiff-link...
on 2009-08-21 15:49
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote: > Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his > work before leaving. That's not consistent with "people come and > go". I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... Well, one theory, and most likely?, is that he did it intentionally, another is that he was hacked somehow. AFAIK, the jury is still out on that. He's probably still out there and may come back, but no matter what, I suspect we'll never know _why! -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2009-08-21 15:53
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Rick DeNatale<rick.denatale@gmail.com>
wrote:
> suspect we'll never know _why!
Nothing on the shoes mailing list either. (Actually, I wonder if he
took the server for that down)
martin
on 2009-08-21 15:54
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Rick DeNatale<rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Gregory Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote: >> Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his >> work before leaving. That's not consistent with "people come and >> go". I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... > > Well, one theory, and most likely?, is that he did it intentionally, > another is that he was hacked somehow. AFAIK, the jury is still out > on that. Do you really think there is a remote possibility that he was hacked at this point? I thought so too at first, but I doubt it now. -greg
on 2009-08-21 16:10
On Aug 21, 2009, at 1:47 AM, James Britt wrote: > Phrogz wrote: >> On Aug 20, 2:08 pm, Karl von Laudermann <doodpa...@mailinator.com> >> wrote: >>> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the >>> internets!http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why >> Among the terrible consequences of this, one of the lesser but still >> notable is that someone with the power needs to edit ruby-lang.org to >> remove the link to tryruby.hobix.com > > Done. I went ahead and pulled all three of his links on the documentation page as well. :( James Edward Gray II
on 2009-08-21 16:13
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote: > > on that. > > Do you really think there is a remote possibility that he was hacked > at this point? I thought so too at first, but I doubt it now. > > -greg > > It's definitely too late now, or we would have heard if he got hacked. He closed up shop and destroyed almost a decade's worth of Ruby information, discussions, library documentation, ticket history, etc. I agree with Zed on this one, that was a dick move. People use and rely on the tools he's built, have contributed back to them, and have helped with the documentation. He didn't just destroy his work, he destroyed the work of hundreds, maybe thousands, of people who wanted to contribute to Open Source. I had tons of respect for _why and always marveled at his capabilities (while wondering when, if ever, he'd burn out, of course). But after this, well it's going to be hard to take him seriously if he ever shows up again, in Ruby or some other community. Huge props go out to github, at least we didn't lose any of the source code, history, etc, and to Rubyforge for not allowing people to delete their accounts. Jason
on 2009-08-21 16:17
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Gregory Brown<gregory.t.brown@gmail.com> wrote: > Do you really think there is a remote possibility that he was hacked > at this point? I thought so too at first, but I doubt it now. Or maybe the server(s) (is|are) at home and he forgot to pay the electric bill! Of course there's the matter of closing twitter and other accounts. Like I said it's impossible to understand _why. -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2009-08-21 16:22
> Or maybe the server(s) (is|are) at home and he forgot to pay the electric
bill!
His servers were still responding to ssh, just not anything on port 80,
from
what I understand.
on 2009-08-21 16:23
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Rick DeNatale<rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Do you really think there is a remote possibility that he was hacked >> at this point? I thought so too at first, but I doubt it now. > > Or maybe the server(s) (is|are) at home and he forgot to pay the electric bill! > > Of course there's the matter of closing twitter and other accounts. > > Like I said it's impossible to understand _why. You don't need to understand him to have a pretty good sense that this wasn't some cosmic accident.
on 2009-08-21 16:24
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Jason Roelofs<jameskilton@gmail.com> wrote: > It's definitely too late now, or we would have heard if he got hacked. He > closed up shop and destroyed almost a decade's worth of Ruby information, > discussions, library documentation, ticket history, etc. I agree with Zed on > this one, that was a dick move. People use and rely on the tools he's built, > have contributed back to them, and have helped with the documentation. He > didn't just destroy his work, he destroyed the work of hundreds, maybe > thousands, of people who wanted to contribute to Open Source. He has no obligation to do that. Behore him that didn't exist, well now it doesn't again. He has the right to disappear, and people may even appreciate life impermanence. Source code is all around, if people want to keep those projects healthy they have the sources and the means to do so. Starting point is very high compared to years ago. If that was his way of doing that, just respect him. (Of course this is all based on speculation.)
on 2009-08-21 16:36
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Xavier Noria<fxn@hashref.com> wrote: > He has no obligation to do that. Behore him that didn't exist, well > now it doesn't again. He has the right to disappear, and people may > even appreciate life impermanence. Speaking as one practicing Buddhist (and by no means for all Buddhists): Things are impermanent by themselves... a volitional destructive act is not a helpful lesson in impermanence, but something that adds unnecessarily to suffering. At the very least, it'd help to not conflate "disappearance" with "obliteration". While (like anything else) we can learn from any phenomena, we don't need to make life any harder than it already is. -greg
on 2009-08-21 16:37
On Aug 21, 2009, at 10:07, Jason Roelofs wrote: > It's definitely too late now, or we would have heard if he got > hacked. He > closed up shop and destroyed almost a decade's worth of Ruby > information, Destroy it? Didn't he just make it unavailable? And it wasn't as if what he took away was the community's documentation of Ruby, just his own projects to which other people had contributed. It could have been handled better, but it's hardly more than "I'm taking my ball and going home". Considering all the good he did for Ruby over the years, all for free, I don't think anybody should be overly critical of an abrupt departure. Ben
on 2009-08-21 16:50
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Xavier Noria <fxn@hashref.com> wrote: > > didn't just destroy his work, he destroyed the work of hundreds, maybe > If that was his way of doing that, just respect him. > > (Of course this is all based on speculation.) > > I never said he was obligated to keep it around, but that doesn't make the move right or respectful in any way. Leaving the community is fine. Calling it quits with Ruby, or programming in general, that's fine. Destroying the many thousands of hours of work by OTHER PEOPLE simply because it's HIS stuff, out of the blue and with no warning whatsoever, will never, ever be looked at as "respectable". In this one move, he broke one of the leading unspoken rules of Open Source: respect the community. If you don't want to continue maintaining, or you don't want to be around at all anymore, then say so, and people who want to keep said projects running will do so. If Matz decided that he was done with Ruby and wanted to move on, if he pulled a _why and up and deleted ruby-lang.org, the entire SVN repository, and shut down ruby-doc.org, there would be a HUGE outcry. If Jamis Buck decided to completely shut down and delete capistrano instead of posting a good-bye message like he did and letting others take up the reins, people would be pretty ticked off. Why is what _why did here any different, that he should be respected in this decision? I think people have confused two issues here: _why's disappearance and the destruction of all his work. _why calling it quits is FINE. He has every right to leave, and yes he has every right to do what he did in the removal of all this work, but that doesn't make it right. Jason
on 2009-08-21 17:16
However much I hate to agree with Jason, I have to say that _why should have posted the opportunity for others to carry on the torch of his work. Not doing so was kind of a jerk move. Personally, I would welcome _why coming back and reposting all of his work, but I doubt that's going to happen. /Shawn
on 2009-08-21 17:22
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Jason Roelofs<jameskilton@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Well, one theory, and most likely?, is that he did it intentionally, >> > another is that he was hacked somehow. AFAIK, the jury is still out >> > on that. >> >> Do you really think there is a remote possibility that he was hacked >> at this point? I thought so too at first, but I doubt it now. >> >> -greg >> >> > It's definitely too late now, or we would have heard if he got hacked. I strongly feel so too. > well it's going to be hard to take him seriously if he ever shows up again, > in Ruby or some other community. Actually I never liked his style (that does not mean I did not respect him!). But I feel you are a little too harsh with him. I guess most of his work will be saved thanx to forks or by contributing back from local repositories. He might have had some very good reasons, e.g. employment, to do what he did. I hope it was the right decision for him, that is all I have to say to him. > > Huge props go out to github, at least we didn't lose any of the source code, > history, etc, and to Rubyforge for not allowing people to delete their > accounts. U see;) Cheers Robert
on 2009-08-21 17:24
I think that for now we should close that chapter. _why is gone and no matter what, he seems to have done so on his own and made up his mind completely. > that doesn't make the move right or respectful in any way. Noone needs to be *respectful*. I do not understand the stipulation to be *respectful*. It also does not make any move "right" or "wrong" only because others judge it in a specific way. There is no "wrong" or "right". If that were, why would we have wars for example? Behaviour of people is different, and motivations vary. And the internet really is not 1:1 real world ... Fact remains that _why is gone for now, and to complain about "he destroyed the work of others" is like complaining around as you do: > Destroying the many thousands of hours of work by OTHER PEOPLE simply > because it's HIS stuff, out of the blue and with no warning whatsoever, > will never, ever be looked at as "respectable". Why complain? Also this is your stipulation. It is not as if he is forced to fullfil any criteras others bestow on him. For example, in your paragraph I would ask - how could it be that a single man destroys thousands of hours of work by other people? Were these people so stupid to not keep their own work? It seems to strange what you write here ... Personally, I had a mixed mind about _why. The plus side - which I believe clearly overwhelms the downside - was that he was that he was extremely creative, and appeared friendly (at least when I wrote him). Having his talent in the ruby community was a big plus. Many people liked his work, like the poignant guide, tryruby (the official ruby webpage really needs to have this, so people can try out ruby without installing it locally, for testing purpose), shoes and so on. A great many cool things. Better to have 1 _why than 10 zedshaws in a community ... His work for yaml also was great. I mean, yaml is great. People defend XML so often, like this way "you use XML not for how it was meant to be", but when I see people doing XML config files, and compare these to the simplicity of a yaml config file (or other simpler formats), I know that something is very wrong in the XML camp. People often do not recognize that doing things in a specific way is bad - or there are other ways, which are BETTER. Creativity and Elegancy is a universal trait. Shoes was elegant. The comics were elegant and creative. Come to think about it, we should get 10 new different _why's to compensate for the one _why being gone. The downside for me was that it appeared as if _why moved from project to project like the wind. When he seemed bored with it, he stopped it more or less. See hpricot. Also I had the impression that he left shoes, more or less, to play with potion or other crazy ideas (a new programming language? Oh man...). The poignant guide was confusing me actually more than it helped me understand - I am a little dumb. The pickaxe was much easier for me to understand. I know that _why was picky about this topic, even moreso because a VERY FEW others very critical, and he seemed to pick up this more readily. I guess it is easier to feel irritated about others complaining, than for those who cheer and praise a work. Bit unfair to neglect those that cheer for someone. And if anyone feels too irritated - lighten up. Criticism needs to exist in creative communities as well, without stifling creativity.
on 2009-08-21 18:07
Jason Roelofs wrote: > > If Matz decided that he was done with Ruby and wanted to move on, if he > pulled a _why and up and deleted ruby-lang.org, the entire SVN repository, > and shut down ruby-doc.org, there would be a HUGE outcry. I'll say. I'd wonder how he got access to my servers to shut down ruby-doc.org. There's a reason to have things distributed. Fault tolerance. > Nonetheless this is a very educational experience, and, in the grand scheme of things, hardly world-shaking. Be grateful both for what you were given and what you can learn. -- James Britt www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff www.neurogami.com - Smart application development
on 2009-08-21 23:14
Okay, here's my theory. _why, Jimmy Hoffa, and Judge Crater are all the same person. They've never been seen together, and they are all unseen together now! <G> -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2009-08-22 00:16
On Aug 20, 4:10 pm, Karl von Laudermann <doodpa...@mailinator.com>
wrote:
> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets!http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why
I can only imagine _why stumbled upon some forbidden 'potion' in his
secret lab one night and ...
\ | /
o*o *o ' O o o
*oO Poof o*'O
*OoO*'o*'o o
/ | \
that was that.
Go well _why, go well.
on 2009-08-22 01:04
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:35:47 -0500, Gregory Brown wrote:
Hi all,
> -greg
I only hope he's ok, as it seems like an act of someone not in the right
frame of mind. Obviously I have no evidence to support that, but if he
has suffered a breakdown I hope someone's there to look after him.
People
often try to disappear from the rest of the world when they're
depressed.
Rational thoughts are not high on their priority list!
I don't know. But I'm certainly not going to call it a 'dick act' or
ridicule him for doing what he's done without knowing the facts!
on 2009-08-22 01:37
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Mark<markonlinux@internode.on.net> wrote: >> At the very least, it'd help to not conflate "disappearance" with > > I don't know. But I'm certainly not going to call it a 'dick act' or > ridicule him for doing what he's done without knowing the facts! I don't want to pass judgment either, honestly. Non-personally the act is destructive. The circumstances won't change that, they'd only change how _why's reputation is held if he ever decides to resurface. But recognizing the problem with this act is relevant to our community. I imagine if this were a regular occurrence, Github would have been doing true clones rather than what they currently do with their fork networks. If we really can't trust one another, then we need to decentralize documentation and articles if we want to call them 'community resources'. Investigating the situation will help find the right balance. I too hope that the drama dies down soon though.
on 2009-08-22 02:37
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Gregory Brown <gregory.t.brown@gmail.com>wrote: > The circumstances won't change that, they'd only > change how _why's reputation is held if he ever decides to resurface. > I hold no ill will towards _why over his disappearance and think it would be great if he were to resurface and begin programming again. However, if he's done with that chapter of his life I wish him godspeed on his future endeavors.
on 2009-08-22 03:59
Hi,
In message "Re: Why, oh why, _why?"
on Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:50:09 +0900, Jason Roelofs
<jameskilton@gmail.com> writes:
|If Matz decided that he was done with Ruby and wanted to move on, if he
|pulled a _why and up and deleted ruby-lang.org, the entire SVN repository,
|and shut down ruby-doc.org, there would be a HUGE outcry.
Fortunately, none of the SVN repository, ruby-lang.org, ruby-doc.org
is maintained by myself. Even if I disappear today, we will lose
little.
matz.
on 2009-08-22 04:15
On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:
> Even if I disappear today, we will lose little.
I disagree. ;)
James Edward Gray II
on 2009-08-22 07:08
> If we really can't trust one another, then we > need to decentralize documentation and articles if we want to call > them 'community resources'. Quite frankly, I think you're overdoing it. For important projects, there will always be people who have a reasonably up to date copy somewhere. git is decentralized and not every clone/fork is hosted on github. The presence of the code on github is of little importance in this context. He only removed his account and the master tree. Since he is the copyright holder for the original version of his OSS, he has the right to do so. The "community" should be thankful for the time and effort he put into his software in the past and respect his decision.
on 2009-08-22 11:57
We should keep it in mind that he is possibly watching this very thread. Let's not burn any bridges. (And thanks for everything, _why)
on 2009-08-22 12:18
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:14 AM, James Edward Gray II<james@graysoftinc.com> wrote: > On Aug 21, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > >> Even if I disappear today, we will lose little. > > I disagree. ;) > > James Edward Gray II So do I and the same holds for _why, and well just *everybody*. Very sad to here that Guy disappeared :(. It is understandable that people are worried about data lost, and so did I. But probably the data can be recovered and if Github learns from this scenario to foresee the "highly unlikely" in the future, the better. But the *person must come first*. And Internet reputation might be a problem for everyone of us. Thus please do not use terms like *dick move* even if you explain your ideas nicely. Search engines for recruiters will not read your balancing post. We still have the reputation of a nice community :).... Cheers Robert
on 2009-08-22 13:08
2009/8/22 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>: > But the *person must come first*. And Internet reputation might be a > problem for everyone of us. Thus please do not use terms like *dick > move* even if you explain your ideas nicely. Search engines for > recruiters will not read your balancing post. Aargh - you had to go and spoil it by bringing up recruiters :( A recruiter who would screen me out for having used the phrase "dick move" in a mailing list post in which I was speaking for myself[1] has failed both as a recruiter and as a human being. martin [1] if i was officially speaking for my employer, that would be different
on 2009-08-22 14:38
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Martin DeMello<martindemello@gmail.com> wrote: > 2009/8/22 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>: >> But the *person must come first*. And Internet reputation might be a >> problem for everyone of us. Thus please do not use terms like *dick >> move* even if you explain your ideas nicely. Search engines for >> recruiters will not read your balancing post. > > Aargh - you had to go and spoil it by bringing up recruiters :( A > recruiter who would screen me out for having used the phrase "dick > move" in a mailing list post in which I was speaking for myself[1] has > failed both as a recruiter and as a human being. You are so right and nevertheless your professional career might depend on such people if only for a short time. I somehow imagine that for certain jobs (M$?) open source experience might be harmful, but I am getting off topic, BTW you said it *again* ;). Which of course is your fundamental right I would never challenge!!!! Cheers Robert
on 2009-08-22 14:42
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:06 AM, lith<minilith@gmail.com> wrote: > He only removed his account and the master tree. Since he is the > copyright holder for the original version of his OSS, he has the right > to do so. The "community" should be thankful for the time and effort > he put into his software in the past and respect his decision. I think there was a misunderstanding. If you blow out a github account, it destroys the fork networks downstream. This means that a lot of forked repositories went out of service. All of the data is still there (on people's local machines for re-pushing), but it left those folks to rebuild the networks manually. Saying "Maybe Github should fix that" isn't overdoing it. I don't see a good reason why there should be service interruption to downstream forks if the original author disappears. I think this optimization was built on open source trust in the first place, and is worth questioning though. -greg
on 2009-08-22 14:43
2009/8/22 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>: > Very sad to here that Guy disappeared :(. > It is understandable that people are worried about data lost, and so > did I. But probably the data can be recovered and if Github learns > from this scenario to foresee the "highly unlikely" in the future, the > better. > > But the *person must come first*. And Internet reputation might be a > problem for everyone of us. Thus please do not use terms like *dick > move* even if you explain your ideas nicely. Search engines for > recruiters will not read your balancing post. Not that I care about recruiters, but did anyone say that in this thread? I thought that was in Zed Shaw's post. The closest thing to it might be me saying that it was (non-personally) a destructive act.
on 2009-08-22 14:44
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Karl von Laudermann<doodpants@mailinator.com> wrote: > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why He is now working for the NSA :>
on 2009-08-22 14:53
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Todd Benson<caduceass@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Karl von > Laudermann<doodpants@mailinator.com> wrote: >> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! >> http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > He is now working for the NSA :> No wait, I meant the MiB, of course.
on 2009-08-22 21:35
Gregory Brown wrote: > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Ralf Mueller<ralf.mueller@zmaw.de> wrote: >> Things like that can always happen, even matz could simple start doing >> totally different things right now ('Gone fishing...'). >> Reminds me of Guy Decoux. > Not sure if you are aware, but _why intentionally destroyed all his > work before leaving. That's not consistent with "people come and > go". I don't plan to set fire to my apartment when I move out.... That's quite an unfortunate crossing of thoughtstreams that put Guy Decoux and a burning apartment in the same discussion thread ¡K Kind of reminds me of the TUI press conference after the 2004 Tsunami: "17 of our guests haven't resurfaced yet". jwm
on 2009-08-22 22:50
Karl von Laudermann wrote: > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why On thing i do know is that he was working on Shoes 2, and on his Shoe web site he had references to two other languages that he though was neat (Scala or Clojure I think), but the other one he mentioned a lot and deserved a look at was REBOL. http://www.rebol.com/index-lang.html First built by one of the creators of Amiga OS. The goal is to be the premier Internet language, to remain small (well under a meg for the whole thing), and super easy to use (but breaks many standard programming conventions that a lot did not like. Well REBOL 3.0 has been in the works for over a year and will most likely be the last big huge effort to get this programming language to "Grow Up" and get out there before its time passes it bye. http://www.rebol.com/rebol3/motivation.html He may have just cut all Ruby ties to work on this language and help the 5 man team. In his Poignant Guide he points out that he had actually looked at Ruby before, but put it down thinking "Poor little language does not stand a chance." Well Ruby is here to stay, but perhaps this interesting internet language (REBOL) being rebuilt from the ground up has called _why to its cause. Check it out and see if that may be where he vanished to.
on 2009-08-22 23:07
2009/8/22 Jörg W Mittag <JoergWMittag+Usenet@googlemail.com>: > Decoux and a burning apartment in the same discussion thread … > > Kind of reminds me of the TUI press conference after the 2004 Tsunami: > "17 of our guests haven't resurfaced yet". Yes, I realized this after posting but was trying not to call attention to it. Rather terrible trick of my subconscious, my apologies.
on 2009-08-23 01:38
On 22 Aug 2009, at 21:50, Brad Mr wrote: > Karl von Laudermann wrote: >> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! >> http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > On thing i do know is that he was working on Shoes 2, and on his Shoe > web site he had references to two other languages that he though was > neat (Scala or Clojure I think), but the other one he mentioned a lot > and deserved a look at was REBOL. > http://www.rebol.com/index-lang.html I know _why? had a background in the Amiga scene so it's no surprise that he mentioned Rebol. There are also certain conceptual similarities between Shoes and Rebol/View which hint at a similar outlook on the nature of networked applications, although the underlying languages have different priorities. Unfortunately it's very hard for a language to gain traction unless a particularly successful project is based on it and Rebol currently lacks that. The closed source commercial model behind development also makes it that bit less attractive in a world overflowing with powerful open source languages. Ellie Eleanor McHugh Games With Brains http://slides.games-with-brains.net ---- raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
on 2009-08-23 01:44
Eleanor McHugh wrote: > I know _why? had a background in the Amiga scene so it's no surprise > that he mentioned Rebol. There are also certain conceptual > similarities between Shoes and Rebol/View which hint at a similar > outlook on the nature of networked applications, although the > underlying languages have different priorities. > > Unfortunately it's very hard for a language to gain traction unless a > particularly successful project is based on it and Rebol currently > lacks that. The closed source commercial model behind development also > makes it that bit less attractive in a world overflowing with powerful > open source languages. > > > Ellie > > Eleanor McHugh > Games With Brains > http://slides.games-with-brains.net > ---- > raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason Except in REBOL 3 all parts but the most core components are going to be opened sourced. I wish I knew more about C I would gladly contribute.
on 2009-08-23 01:53
On 23 Aug 2009, at 00:44, Brad Mr wrote: > Except in REBOL 3 all parts but the most core components are going > to be > opened sourced. I wish I knew more about C I would gladly contribute. For many people that caveat alone will rightly or wrongly sway their perception of the language. Ellie Eleanor McHugh Games With Brains http://slides.games-with-brains.net ---- raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
on 2009-08-23 07:56
On Aug 21, 12:38 am, Gerald Ebberink <gerald.ebber...@nclr.nl> wrote: > > He also thought me the basics of ruby... Even so much I bought The Ruby > Way, and now use ruby at work.... agreed, i still read the "upturned bin" GC post regularly. Happily, that's lodged in Google's archives.
on 2009-08-23 11:58
2009/8/23 Eleanor McHugh <eleanor@games-with-brains.com>: > On 23 Aug 2009, at 00:44, Brad Mr wrote: >> >> Except in REBOL 3 all parts but the most core components are going to be >> opened sourced. Â I wish I knew more about C I would gladly contribute. > > For many people that caveat alone will rightly or wrongly sway their > perception of the language. > I for myself try to stick to opensource where possible. There are some ideological reasons that might or might not apply in particular cases but there are certainly very pragmatic reasons as well. Since I have the source I can easily do minor adjustments to the software and perhaps try to debug any issues I encounter. I have never worked with a compiler or interpreter regularly without encountering issues so this part is very important for me. Even if I cannot find the cause myself I can consult others and test patches easily. When the original author quits and there is interest in the community the software can continue to evolve can be seen with _why's work now. So unless I *really* need a feature that is only available in non-opensource software I choose an opensource alternative where available. Nothing is more annoying than a "freeware" that has a minor glitch which would be dead simple to fix but you have to rewrite it because you do not have the source. Thanks Michal
on 2009-08-23 18:30
On Aug 21, 2009, at 21:59 , Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote: > Fortunately, none of the SVN repository, ruby-lang.org, ruby-doc.org > Even if I disappear today, we will lose little. > matz. Matz, I respectfully disagree, please stick around :) ~Wayne
on 2009-08-24 00:35
On Friday 21 August 2009 12:45:07 am Phrogz wrote: > On Aug 20, 2:08 pm, Karl von Laudermann <doodpa...@mailinator.com> > > wrote: > > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the > > internets!http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > Among the terrible consequences of this, one of the lesser but still > notable is that someone with the power needs to edit ruby-lang.org to > remove the link to tryruby.hobix.com That is sad, and probably the first time I've been truly burnt by an online service... That is, while I imagine someone may have his "freaky freaky sandbox" somewhere, I'll no longer be able to point people to that amazing introduction. It was something like fifteen or twenty minutes, even for non- programmers, and served as an amazing introduction to Ruby and programming in general. Perhaps I'm being selfish, but I think that's one thing I'll miss the most. Much of his other work has been either saved or replicated somewhere (many seem to be using Nokogiri instead of Hpricot these days), and while I enjoyed his sense of humor, I found the poignant guide to be confusing more than anything else. But that in particular, and perhaps where Hackity was eventually going -- I actually sat my mother down with that, and she was able to understand what was going on, and had fun doing it. I suppose what's creepy now is looking in Google Cache and seeing him describe himself as someone "who will die young and make no lasting impression." Like everyone else here, I hope he's alright.
on 2009-08-24 00:50
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:34 PM, David Masover <ninja@slaphack.com> wrote: > non- > programmers, and served as an amazing introduction to Ruby and programming > in > general. > > Perhaps I'm being selfish, but I think that's one thing I'll miss the most. I entirely agree. I must've pointed at least a dozen people who were interested in trying to learn to program but had no idea how to start at tryruby, and many of them "got it" from that more than any other tutorial. While it wouldn't be too difficult to duplicate the sandboxed VM-on-the-web, it'd be much harder to replicate the easy and informative tutorial that went along with it.
on 2009-08-24 01:44
On Friday 21 August 2009 09:37:17 am Ben Giddings wrote: > Destroy it? Didn't he just make it unavailable? And it wasn't as if > what he took away was the community's documentation of Ruby, just his > own projects to which other people had contributed. Best not to trivialize those contributions. Not to mention the things built on top of them... I admit, when I heard about this, my first reaction was a sigh of relief that Mechanize is built on Nokogiri now. > Considering all the good he did for Ruby over the years, all for free, > I don't think anybody should be overly critical of an abrupt departure. I can cut him, the person, some slack for that. But, it doesn't negate what the departure did. How much effort would it have been to post some amount of warning, at least, rather than forcing us to mirror everything after the fact?
on 2009-08-24 02:02
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Tony Arcieri<tony@medioh.com> wrote: >> introduction. It was something like fifteen or twenty minutes, even for > While it wouldn't be too difficult to duplicate the sandboxed VM-on-the-web, > it'd be much harder to replicate the easy and informative tutorial that went > along with it. Fortunately there is some progress on that front: http://whymirror.github.com/ sandbox and Try Ruby: Jedi master parolkar is recovering Try Ruby and its sandbox-shaped heart. Thanks to lsegal who recovered a bunch of sandbox code from svn. Once it's done, they'll post to comp.lang.ruby to get it linked from ruby-lang.org again. Try Ruby is a great project, please do what you can to help parolkar revive it!
on 2009-08-24 02:09
On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:10:08 +0900, Karl von Laudermann wrote: > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why I find it somewhat unsurprising that somebody who was totally anonymous in the first place might up and disappear one day. --Ken
on 2009-08-24 02:39
Hi _why! Somehow, I had premonition you would make this 'dis-appearance'. Understandable in a _why sort of _way. All the best to your efforts. You've given some great handles to the pot. ---para
on 2009-08-24 03:37
Ken Bloom wrote: > On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:10:08 +0900, Karl von Laudermann wrote: > >> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! >> http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why > > I find it somewhat unsurprising that somebody who was totally anonymous > in the first place might up and disappear one day. > > --Ken Good point, may have been something he planned from the start, something he expected to do one day just not sure when. I guess he felt Ruby was well supported and entrenched (for the right reasons) and had helped enough people he was no longer needed to a certain degree. But if you think about, how many stories have there been over the Centuries about a man or women in a whole class and level of there own in something. That they were referred to as "THE" person regarding "X". But in the end, they some how mysteriously vanish. Me Personally i hope he is off to help the REBOL team in making REBOL 3 a reality before its time passes by.
on 2009-08-24 16:34
On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Todd Benson wrote: > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Todd Benson<caduceass@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Karl von >> Laudermann<doodpants@mailinator.com> wrote: >>> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! >>> http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why >> >> He is now working for the NSA :> > > No wait, I meant the MiB, of course. And in that case, he'd be known as Y
on 2009-08-25 12:37
G'day people, I hope we are all well today. I'm looking at a kind-of 4gl type thing (fourth generation language - 4GL). I had the idea that REBOL was out and about a long time back. I stand corrected, the wikipedia says 1997. Don't call me crazy if I'm thinkin' there was REBOL before 1980 ~ Wasn't it a kind of parallel with FORTH & PICK as better ways to live -- Stemming from Algol68 and Simula? I had an Amiga back then, and the poor thing went to the tip, 3 house moves ago. I Simula, Algol68 and Simscript are the reasons I jumped into C++ when it 'arrived'. I still miss the Algol 60/68 call-by-name hey! NOT according to the REBOL.org area -- In fact, my recollection was a "rebol" thing that was build on COBOL. I'd love to know if I'm memory- revising/ hallucinating? Anyway, I am [Generally] interested in conversations about things like PICK or 4GL-s. Mail direct. Looking at REBOL ... It reminds me very much of the MT983 financial terminals and B-series from Burroughs (now Unisys). When I first saw that ... I was reminded of AWK, Snobol and the Hayes modem command syntax. No wonder I'm tired today ! Take care, will ---- * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebol * http://www.rebol.com/index-lang.html * http://www.softwaredeveloper.com/features/ghosts-i... "12 Coding Languages That Never Took Off"
on 2010-06-16 13:41
Rob Biedenharn wrote: > On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Todd Benson wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Todd Benson<caduceass@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Karl von >>> Laudermann<doodpants@mailinator.com> wrote: >>>> _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! >>>> http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why >>> >>> He is now working for the NSA :> >> >> No wait, I meant the MiB, of course. > > And in that case, he'd be known as Y What is nsa we people dont know about it ____________________ http://www.gigbucks.com/
on 2010-06-17 16:22
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Karl von Laudermann <doodpants@mailinator.com> wrote: > _why the lucky stiff appears to have disappeared from the internets! > http://daringfireball.net/linked/2009/08/20/resig-why Why do I find myself thinking he just might surface again for this: http://whyday.org/ -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Github: http://github.com/rubyredrick Twitter: @RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2010-06-17 16:22
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * Jackie Winn, 06/16/2010 01:41 PM: > What is nsa we people dont know about it NSA: National Security Agency, formerly known as No Such Agency (because for many years its existence was not acknowledged by the U.S. government). Their motto is supposed to be "never say anything". As it is mostly the case if no country is given it is a United States of America agency. It is responsible for the collection and analysis of foreign communications and foreign signals intelligence. In short: They are the big brother of all people unless they live in the USA and don't communicate with any foreigner. Rumor has it that they are able to eavesdrop any communication that is at least in part transmitted wirelessly (for example via satellite) and almost any other communication that isn't either face-to-face or transported by means of physically written word as well. Josef 'Jupp' Schugt - -- Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt eine EU-Verordnung. PGP key (id 6CC6574F) http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net/ http://penpen.soup.io/ http://twitter.com/penpendede Werde Mitglied der Piratenpartei! http://web.piratenpartei.de/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwY2jYACgkQrhv7B2zGV08HVQCg1BT+ha/qlHo20mne/8/fdTKU QDMAoKeOOwqZWclHaxhwIJLNc2zMUzA8 =tfnT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 2010-06-17 16:26
I don't know if this has been sent out already, but I really enjoyed reading this article about _why: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/05/15/why-a-t... Siddarth
on 2010-06-17 16:27
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Josef 'Jupp' Schugt <jupp@gmx.de> wrote: > NSA: National Security Agency, formerly known as No Such Agency (because > for many years its existence was not acknowledged by the U.S. > government). Their motto is supposed to be "never say anything". Now that you told him, you're going to have to shoot him. <G> -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Github: http://github.com/rubyredrick Twitter: @RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2010-06-17 16:27
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com>wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Josef 'Jupp' Schugt <jupp@gmx.de> wrote: > > NSA: National Security Agency, formerly known as No Such Agency (because > > for many years its existence was not acknowledged by the U.S. > > government). Their motto is supposed to be "never say anything". > > Now that you told him, you're going to have to shoot him. <G> > There's a CIA Black site for that (TM) Andrew McElroy
on 2010-06-17 16:35
On 16.06.2010 18:26, Rick DeNatale wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Josef 'Jupp' Schugt<jupp@gmx.de> wrote: >> NSA: National Security Agency, formerly known as No Such Agency (because >> for many years its existence was not acknowledged by the U.S. >> government). Their motto is supposed to be "never say anything". > > Now that you told him, you're going to have to shoot him.<G> Me too, me too! :-) robert PS: For those who want to learn more I recommend James Bamford's books on the matter ("Body of secrets" and "The shadow factory").
on 2010-06-17 19:49
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>wrote: >> Now that you told him, you're going to have to shoot him.<G> >> > > Me too, me too! :-) > I was going to suggest (after seeing Rick DeNatale's post) that after shooting the questioner, Josef probably ought to shoot himself, but after seeing your post - were you suggesting that Josef should shoot you, or that you should shoot the questioner ? :) - it occurs to me that to be on the safe side maybe we should just shoot everybody including ourselves! (For some reason I'm reminded of the SAC chief who allegedly said that if after a nuclear war there were two americans and one russian left "we win": clearly someone who had not heard of "pyhrric victories". In the interests of balance, I ought to point out that not all american military shared this opinion. I think if Admiral Spruance had heard it, he would have disagreed: he had some faults, but I'm rather impressed that he spoke up against the internment of the Japanese-Americans in the middle of WW2.)
on 2010-06-17 20:50
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Colin Bartlett <colinb2r@googlemail.com> wrote: > For some reason I'm reminded of the SAC chief who allegedly said that if > after a nuclear war there were two americans and one russian left "we win" That sounds like a line from a movie, maybe Dr. Strangelove? -- Rick DeNatale Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/ Github: http://github.com/rubyredrick Twitter: @RickDeNatale WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
on 2010-06-17 22:36
Josef 'Jupp' Schugt wrote:
> communicate with any foreigner.
That is only half of their job. The other half is exactly the dual of
that: *protection* of US communications.
jwm
on 2010-06-17 22:47
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Colin Bartlett <colinb2r@googlemail.com> wrote: >> For some reason I'm reminded of the SAC chief who allegedly said that if >> after a nuclear war there were two americans and one russian left "we win" > > That sounds like a line from a movie, maybe Dr. Strangelove? http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articl... General Thomas S. Power, commander of the Strategic Air Command, interrupted Dr. Kaufmann two minutes into his four-hour briefing: "Why do you want us to restrain ourselves?" Power bellowed, according to people who recalled the episode to Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Fred Kaplan. "Restraint! Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards!" After several more minutes of the briefing, Power finally said, "Look. At the end of the war, if there are two Americans and one Russian, we win!" Dr. Kaufmann retorted: "Well, you'd better make sure that they're a man and a woman." http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1693 “Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards. . . . Look. At the end of the war, if there are two Americans and one Russian, we win!”[i] Everyone who knew Power seems to have thought he was crazy. Even the man he replaced as SAC commander, General Curtis LeMay, regarded him as unstable—and everybody knew that LeMay himself was, as Dr. Strangelove’s Group Captain Lionel Mandrake would have put it, “as mad as a bloody March hare.” After LeMay left his command at SAC, he became Vice Chief of Staff of the Air Force in 1957 and Chief of Staff in 1961. He is most often remembered as a tireless advocate of an all-out, nuclear first strike on the Soviet Union and its allies, and as the most likely inspiration for General Buck Turgidson in Strangelove. Either Power or LeMay might have served as a model for the Strangelove character General Jack D. Ripper, whose own nuclear first strike on the Ruskies came straight out of the LeMay-Power playbook. [i] Power as quoted in Fred Kaplan, The Wizards of Armageddon (Stanford, Calif.: Stanford University Press, [1983] 1991), p. 246.
on 2010-06-18 07:23
On 17.06.2010 19:48, Colin Bartlett wrote: >>>> NSA: National Security Agency, formerly known as No Such Agency (because > shooting the questioner, Josef probably ought to shoot himself, but after > seeing your post - were you suggesting that Josef should shoot you, or that > you should shoot the questioner ? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse_%28figure_of_speech%29 > - it occurs to me that to be on the > safe side maybe we should just shoot everybody including ourselves! I agree. You go first. :-) Cheers robert
on 2010-06-18 09:04
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wrote: Rick we got a problem in the states we have to shoot ourselves 9 times while here in france 7 times suffice. A classical I18N bug.
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