Forum: NGINX New wiki

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Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 11:58
(Received via mailing list)
I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
http://www.nginx-community.org.

The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
case there's anything there we still need to migrate.

If anyone has any issues, please contact me.

Regards,
Cliff
Phillip B Oldham (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 12:12
(Received via mailing list)
Attachment: phill.vcf (0 Bytes)
The try_files directive needs an entry and some examples asap - I'd do
it myself but I'm unsure how it works!

Cliff W. wrote:
> I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
> http://www.nginx-community.org.
>
> The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
> case there's anything there we still need to migrate.
>
> If anyone has any issues, please contact me.
>
> Regards,
> Cliff
--

*Phillip B Oldham*
The Activity People
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Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 13:09
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 09:58 +0000, Phillip B Oldham wrote:
> The try_files directive needs an entry and some examples asap - I'd do
> it myself but I'm unsure how it works!

I just wrote this based on conversations on this list.  I haven't tried
it myself.

http://www.nginx-community.org/NginxHttpCoreModule#try_files

Regards,
Cliff
Maxim D. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 13:51
(Received via mailing list)
Hello!

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 02:50:04AM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:

> I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
> http://www.nginx-community.org.
>
> The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
> case there's anything there we still need to migrate.
>
> If anyone has any issues, please contact me.

I see the following javascript error on the new wiki:

Error: wgBreakFrames is not defined
Source File:
http://www.nginx-community.org/skins/common/wikibits.js
Line: 99

It should be trivial to fix.

Also there are several css parsing errors reported by FF in error
console, looks like just typos.

Maxim D.
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 14:09
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 14:41 +0300, Maxim D. wrote:
> > If anyone has any issues, please contact me.
>
> I see the following javascript error on the new wiki:
>
> Error: wgBreakFrames is not defined
> Source File:
> http://www.nginx-community.org/skins/common/wikibits.js
> Line: 99
>
> It should be trivial to fix.

It was.

> Also there are several css parsing errors reported by FF in error
> console, looks like just typos.

Yep, a stray close-comment in one place and a missing open-comment in
another.

I still get a couple of warnings from the CSS validator, but I think
they are generated by MediaWiki trying to do clever stuff with JS
filenames.

Thanks!
Maxim D. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 15:41
(Received via mailing list)
Hello!

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 04:59:41AM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:

[...]

> > Also there are several css parsing errors reported by FF in error
> > console, looks like just typos.
>
> Yep, a stray close-comment in one place and a missing open-comment in
> another.
>
> I still get a couple of warnings from the CSS validator, but I think
> they are generated by MediaWiki trying to do clever stuff with JS
> filenames.

Now header and footer looks garbled in IE7.  It was ok before
recent changes.

Maxim D.
Floren M. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 16:49
(Received via mailing list)
Hi Cliff,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cliff W. [mailto:cliff-
> removed_email_address@domain.invalid]
> Posted At: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:50 AM
> Posted To: gmane.comp.web.nginx.english
> Conversation: New wiki
> Subject: New wiki
>
> I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
> http://www.nginx-community.org.

Thanks for the update.
Chris Cortese (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 19:52
(Received via mailing list)
Thanks, this is nice, but why no forums?  Seems to me some of the
mailing list stuff might be better served in forums.
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 19:55
(Received via mailing list)
I've offered to make one. I'll get it going. Category ideas?


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 21:09
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 16:33 +0300, Maxim D. wrote:
> Now header and footer looks garbled in IE7.  It was ok before
> recent changes.

Okay should be fixed now.  I ended up removing the doctype and
rearranging the top menubar as a table.  It was either that or just
redirect all IE users to a modern browser download.

God, I hate IE :P

Cliff
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 21:12
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 10:43 -0700, Chris Cortese wrote:
> Thanks, this is nice, but why no forums?  Seems to me some of the
> mailing list stuff might be better served in forums.

I've considered this.  My biggest concern is splintering the community.
If people find a forum, they may never find their way here (and vice
versa).   The more people in one spot, the more likely someone will get
their questions answered.

The solution, of course, is to cross-post between the forum and mailing
list, but that brings it's own issues (as we've seen with the crap that
comes in from the ruby forum that is linked here).

If someone has a bright idea on how to address that, I'd be happy to add
a forum to the mix.

Cliff
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 21:45
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:04:22PM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:

> list, but that brings it's own issues (as we've seen with the crap that
> comes in from the ruby forum that is linked here).
>
> If someone has a bright idea on how to address that, I'd be happy to add
> a forum to the mix.

I understand that many people are used to use forums. However, I
personally
do not like them. Is it possible in forum to see all unread or marked
messages ? But the most uncomfortable forum thing for me is the
forum/browser
editor to post messages. I'm used to edit in vim.

I think that cross-posting will be the best solution.
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 21:45
(Received via mailing list)
Well right now ruby-forum has the cross-merging.

also, Phorum has email list-to-forum mapping I believe. Even NNTP
support, I believe...

So then everyone could see every message from every source.

What we don't want to get into is Sun's style. their forum/list
integration is laggy and kinda funky.
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 21:47
(Received via mailing list)
Igor, would you be willing to donate nginx.org (or wiki.nginx.org,
forums.nginx.org or forum.nginx.org) etc. towards this?

nginx-community.org is kinda long... I'd be willing to help with any
upkeep. I know you own nginx.com and nginx.net already, I understand
if you don't want to give up full nginx.org, but it would be neat to
have nginx.org/wiki nginx.org/forums etc.
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:22
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 12:41 -0700, mike wrote:
> Igor, would you be willing to donate nginx.org (or wiki.nginx.org,
> forums.nginx.org or forum.nginx.org) etc. towards this?

I think wiki.nginx.org and forums.nginx.org subdomains would be
useful.

Regards,
Cliff
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:23
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:41:31PM -0700, mike wrote:

> Igor, would you be willing to donate nginx.org (or wiki.nginx.org,
> forums.nginx.org or forum.nginx.org) etc. towards this?
>
> nginx-community.org is kinda long... I'd be willing to help with any
> upkeep. I know you own nginx.com and nginx.net already, I understand
> if you don't want to give up full nginx.org, but it would be neat to
> have nginx.org/wiki nginx.org/forums etc.

Yes, I can point nginx.org or wiki.nginx.org/etc. to these IPs, if Cliff
likes this. However, I want to continue to own the domain itself.
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:24
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:54:40PM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 12:41 -0700, mike wrote:
> > Igor, would you be willing to donate nginx.org (or wiki.nginx.org,
> > forums.nginx.org or forum.nginx.org) etc. towards this?
>
> I think wiki.nginx.org and forums.nginx.org subdomains would be
> useful.

Well, I can point wiki.nginx.org to 69.168.53.49 right now. OK ?
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:26
(Received via mailing list)
Cliff: Any particular reason you prefer this other than nginx.org/wiki/
etc ?

Yes, Igor, you would maintain ownership of the domain. We wouldn't
want you to ever lose your baby :)
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:27
(Received via mailing list)
Can you point forum.nginx.org to 67.213.222.44?
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:27
(Received via mailing list)
Igor,

It is easy with vBulletin to see all unread posts. There is a menu item
at
top for that. You can also subscribe to threads that interest you, and
unsubscribe from those that don't.

With vBulletin it is easy to subscribe the list to new posts but
presently
no mod for putting them back in. So when a new post was made it would
come
to the list, but answers would need to be made in the forum. If someone
wants to write such a mod, I would be willing to contribute to the cost.

There is a quick entry box in which you can enter plain text if you
wish. No
need for anything fancy.

Would you be willing to give it a try?

Jim
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:28
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 23:10 +0300, Igor S. wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:54:40PM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 12:41 -0700, mike wrote:
> > > Igor, would you be willing to donate nginx.org (or wiki.nginx.org,
> > > forums.nginx.org or forum.nginx.org) etc. towards this?
> >
> > I think wiki.nginx.org and forums.nginx.org subdomains would be
> > useful.
>
> Well, I can point wiki.nginx.org to 69.168.53.49 right now. OK ?

That would be great.

Cliff
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:33
(Received via mailing list)
whoa whoa, why don't we host this stuff on the same server/location.

cliff, do you want to give jim an account and point /forum over to him?

this way, if the wiki goes down, the forum isn't up and vice versa.
that always looks so amateur.
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:34
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 03:52:25PM -0400, Jim O. wrote:

> Igor,
>
> It is easy with vBulletin to see all unread posts. There is a menu item at
> top for that. You can also subscribe to threads that interest you, and
> unsubscribe from those that don't.

Can I mark some messages as important for me ?

> With vBulletin it is easy to subscribe the list to new posts but presently
> no mod for putting them back in. So when a new post was made it would come
> to the list, but answers would need to be made in the forum. If someone
> wants to write such a mod, I would be willing to contribute to the cost.
>
> There is a quick entry box in which you can enter plain text if you wish. No
> need for anything fancy.

Yes, this is how I usually do when I need to post in web form: I prepare
a text in vim and then paste it in web form. Sometimes there are
formating
issues. And I hate this. With mutt/vim I have handly quoting and edit
environment.
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:39
(Received via mailing list)
> >
> > It is easy with vBulletin to see all unread posts. There is a menu
> item at
> > top for that. You can also subscribe to threads that interest you,
> and
> > unsubscribe from those that don't.
>
> Can I mark some messages as important for me ?

Yes, by subscribing to the thread. One click.

> > There is a quick entry box in which you can enter plain text if you
> wish. No
> > need for anything fancy.
>
> Yes, this is how I usually do when I need to post in web form: I
> prepare
> a text in vim and then paste it in web form. Sometimes there are
> formating
> issues. And I hate this. With mutt/vim I have handly quoting and edit
> environment.

Igor,

We will work with posts however you format them.

Jim
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:39
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 04:18:42PM -0400, Jim O. wrote:

> > >
> > > It is easy with vBulletin to see all unread posts. There is a menu
> > item at
> > > top for that. You can also subscribe to threads that interest you,
> > and
> > > unsubscribe from those that don't.
> >
> > Can I mark some messages as important for me ?
>
> Yes, by subscribing to the thread. One click.

I mean some messages from a thread. A message dated two months ago.
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:39
(Received via mailing list)
That's fine with me.
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:42
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 23:09 +0300, Igor S. wrote:
> Yes, this is how I usually do when I need to post in web form: I prepare
> a text in vim and then paste it in web form. Sometimes there are formating
> issues. And I hate this. With mutt/vim I have handly quoting and edit
> environment.

Igor, this is for you:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125

Regards,
Cliff
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:47
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 13:27 -0700, mike wrote:
> whoa whoa, why don't we host this stuff on the same server/location.
>
> cliff, do you want to give jim an account and point /forum over to him?

I can setup another VPS if that's acceptable.  Even if we host the
software on the same server, I think separate VPS' is preferable.  That
way we don't have to worry about software conflicts or sharing a
database, etc.

Cliff
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:49
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 01:22:08PM -0700, Cliff W. wrote:

> > Well, I can point wiki.nginx.org to 69.168.53.49 right now. OK ?
>
> That would be great.

done.
Igor S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:50
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Jim O. wrote:

> Can you point forum.nginx.org to 67.213.222.44?

done
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:53
(Received via mailing list)
> > > From: removed_email_address@domain.invalid 
[mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid] On
> > > > It is easy with vBulletin to see all unread posts. There is a
>
> I mean some messages from a thread. A message dated two months ago.

Ahh... that may be more difficult. I'm not sure if such a feature is
available but I can look. Each message can be isolated to a unique URL
and
bookmarked as a single post like
http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/44904-post2.html . Additionally, I
believe
that I can make the URL context sensitive so you would know looking at
it
what it contained. I would have to look into how but I don't believe it
would be hard to do.
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:54
(Received via mailing list)
There is a lot more that can be done about integration of mailing list,
forum, and wiki if they are all local to each other (I am considering
mailing list local by where it is interacted with).  As such, if we are
going to risk splintering things with a forum (because it is a very
valid
concern).  I think the idea to replicate across them is a good idea and
will
be the only way to help keep everything together and organized.  Of
course,
the benefit to having them not on the same server is that if the forum
or
the wiki is down, the other will be up, but this is what local mailing
list
emails solve :).

- Merlin
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 22:56
(Received via mailing list)
I prefer CentOS 5.2 as well. Igor just pointed the subdomain to my VPS
so
we'll need to fix that, though honestly I don't see it as a big deal
either
way. I use both OpenVZ and Virtuozzo and yes, a separate VPS is
preferable.
I need no control panel.

Jim
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 23:13
(Received via mailing list)
Extremely valid concern. However, this is a growing community. Forcing
one
method of interaction/learning on all is a detriment to growth. That's
the
"do it my way or no way" approach.



Most projects, as they grow, do have forums. It is a form of
communication
preferred by many people. This is a fact, and as nginx is  continues to
grow
in popularity it is bound to happen.



Working on an integration with the mailing list is something that I am
willing to contribute to financially, but my php is not strong enough to
do
it myself.



Any takers?



Jim



From: removed_email_address@domain.invalid 
[mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid] On Behalf Of
Merlin
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:47 PM
To: removed_email_address@domain.invalid
Subject: Re: New wiki



There is a lot more that can be done about integration of mailing list,
forum, and wiki if they are all local to each other (I am considering
mailing list local by where it is interacted with).  As such, if we are
going to risk splintering things with a forum (because it is a very
valid
concern).  I think the idea to replicate across them is a good idea and
will
be the only way to help keep everything together and organized.  Of
course,
the benefit to having them not on the same server is that if the forum
or
the wiki is down, the other will be up, but this is what local mailing
list
emails solve :).

- Merlin

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:27 PM, mike <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> 
wrote:

whoa whoa, why don't we host this stuff on the same server/location.

cliff, do you want to give jim an account and point /forum over to him?

this way, if the wiki goes down, the forum isn't up and vice versa.
that always looks so amateur.


On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Jim O. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 23:26
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 23:39 +0300, Igor S. wrote:
> > > > useful.
> > >
> > > Well, I can point wiki.nginx.org to 69.168.53.49 right now. OK ?
> >
> > That would be great.
>
> done.
>

Okay, it's official.  We're now http://wiki.nginx.org/

Regards,
Cliff
Dan Dascalescu (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 23:31
(Received via mailing list)
> Most projects, as they grow, do have forums. It is a form of communication
> preferred by many people. This is a fact, and as nginx is  continues to grow
> in popularity it is bound to happen.
>
> Working on an integration with the mailing list is something that I am
> willing to contribute to financially

Hi Jim,

I'm not sure you saw the Nabble2 link
http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html

Check out their main page for the features. The only downside is that
it hasn't archived any mailing list messages sent before when I
created the forum today.

Dan
C. (Guest)
on 2009-03-12 23:47
(Received via mailing list)
Jim O. wrote:
>  continues to grow in popularity it is bound to happen.
>
>
>
> Working on an integration with the mailing list is something that I am
> willing to contribute to financially, but my php is not strong enough to
> do it myself.

I wasn't going to comment on this, but jive software has built a whole
one-stop-shop community platform.  (integrates ml with forums.. etc..)
We (OSUNIX community) were granted a developer license and even though I
doubt it would be the preferred solution I'd happily host the nginx
community.  The current limitation to this being that ml + forums won't
be synced until we're self hosting the smtp stuff.  The guys/gals at
jivesofter are great, but I know the sticky point is mostly that many
projects/people don't like to use non-foss stuff.  (JIRA being another
example which is great, but not foss.)  Just thought I'd toss some extra
ideas out there instead of more php spaghetti encumbering the world.

Thanks

./Christopher
sam (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 07:50
(Received via mailing list)
Cliff W. <cliff@...> writes:

> Cliff
>
>
Hi:
User contributed patches that were there as attachments have disappeared
Refer:
http://wiki.codemongers.com/NginxHttpUpstreamReque...

Regards,
Sam V
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 13:15
(Received via mailing list)
This is a forum, isn't it?
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 13:29
(Received via mailing list)
A mailing list is a forum of sorts but without the features of more
sophisticated software.

File attachments, private messagiing, threaded discussions, easy access
to older posts to name but a few.

Lighttpd has a forum, a wiki, and a mailing list. Howtoforge has a wiki
and a forum.

It's simply another way to communicate and get/offer support.

If there's no interest then there's no interest.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 13:46
(Received via mailing list)
I like forums. However the mailing list seems to be good enough and
marc archives it in threaded format.

Note that nginxforums.com or net or somethig exists but isn't really
used but someone else had that idea already :)

On Mar 12, 2009, at 11:15 AM, "Jim O." <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
Chris Cortese (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 13:49
(Received via mailing list)
Well...  I'm learning a lot right now but I don't want to receive 100
emails in my inbox indefinitely...  forums would be more convenient.
grant michaels (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 14:14
(Received via mailing list)
i have to admit, i'm looking for that "digest version" myself ...

best personal regards,

-[ grantmichaels ]-
Dan Dascalescu (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 15:54
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 11:15, Jim O. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
wrote:
> A mailing list is a forum of sorts but without the features of more
> sophisticated software.
>
> File attachments, private messagiing, threaded discussions, easy access to
> older posts to name but a few.

There is http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.nginx.english which has
a threaded view and easy searching but not star-rating system for
messages.

I like Nabble more:

http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 17:23
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 01:04 +0000, sam wrote:
> >
> > If anyone has any issues, please contact me.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> Hi:
> User contributed patches that were there as attachments have disappeared
> Refer:
> 
http://wiki.codemongers.com/NginxHttpUpstreamReque...

Hm, that's because for some reason that patch wasn't on the page with
all the other patches.  I'll get it moved (and linked on the right
page).

Cliff
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-13 18:40
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, 2009-03-13 at 01:04 +0000, sam wrote:
>
>
> Cliff W. <cliff@...> writes:
>
> >
> > I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
> > http://www.nginx-community.org.
> >
> > The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
> > case there's anything there we still need to migrate.

> Hi:
> User contributed patches that were there as attachments have disappeared
> Refer:
> 
http://wiki.codemongers.com/NginxHttpUpstreamReque...


Okay Sam,

They are all back.  Thanks for the heads up.

Cliff
Toni M. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 11:48
(Received via mailing list)
Hi,

I'm sorry, but I can't let you say this unanswered:

On Thu, 12.03.2009 at 18:15:36 +0000, Jim O.
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> A mailing list is a forum of sorts but without the features of more
> sophisticated software.

a mailing list is something entirely different, imho.

> File attachments,

send mail with an attachment

> private messagiing,

send email to one person only (ie, outside the list)

> threaded discussions,

standard feature of non-broken MUAs (ie, mutt, Thunderbird, Evolution,
etc).

> easy access to older posts

mailing list archive, may be even downloadable

> to name but a few.

Forums typically have these additional drawbacks in my experience:

- synchronous communications - ie, it won't work if the forum server
  has a hiccup or is currently hacked.

- tends to mess up attachments

- stricter limits on attachment sizes

- centralized (even private messages need to go through the server)

- threading is usually sub-par with MUAs, flexible sorting and
  searching is usually not available

- sorting and searching taxes the server, not the client (as with MUAs)

- broken search results with about any search engines because whole
  threads appear on one page

- usually no downloadable archives

- tend to vanish in a whim if the admin loses interest, or if the forum
  package gets swapped (all links break, nobody fixes them, archives
  are lost forever)

- slow performance, high cost for the operator (much higher than a
  mailing list)


> It's simply another way to communicate and get/offer support.

Yes, and one that causes more fraction and friction to the user base
(imho).



Kind regards,
--Toni++
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 13:15
(Received via mailing list)
I gotta say that Toni enumerated quite well what I was vaguely hinting
at
with "this is a forum".

Along these same lines, I would like to bring up a related issue to the
webforum-linking-with-mailforum thing...  Can we please get a prefix or
suffix tag of [FORUM] or something?  This way we can use our superior
MUA
searching/sorting/filtering features to do with them as we need.

Thanks,
Merlin
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 13:52
(Received via mailing list)
Again, it's a comfort level thing.*Some* people prefer it. It's been
raised
a few times so I'm running with it. If it succeeds fine. If not, I
haven't
lost anything. I'm not married to it (though it probably will require
less
effort and money than does my wife :p).  I don't plan to place any ads
on it
so it isn't as though I'm going to make any money on it. In fact, it
could
conceivably cost money if it gets busy. It's in a Virtuozzo container
that
costs me a few dollars a month. I own the license for the software and
I'm
not doing anything with it currently.



There are two conditions under which it goes away. First is if it's not
used. Second is if I no longer have a way to host and maintain it (that
would include me going away as in permanently). Either of those
presupposes
that no one wishes to take over the joy of it all.



I believe that I have successfully edited the title and format of the
emails
that come from the site so you can delete them at will.



Jim



From: removed_email_address@domain.invalid 
[mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid] On Behalf Of
Merlin
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 2:06 PM
To: removed_email_address@domain.invalid
Subject: Re: New wiki



I gotta say that Toni enumerated quite well what I was vaguely hinting
at
with "this is a forum".

Along these same lines, I would like to bring up a related issue to the
webforum-linking-with-mailforum thing...  Can we please get a prefix or
suffix tag of [FORUM] or something?  This way we can use our superior
MUA
searching/sorting/filtering features to do with them as we need.

Thanks,
Merlin

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Toni M. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
wrote:


Hi,

I'm sorry, but I can't let you say this unanswered:


On Thu, 12.03.2009 at 18:15:36 +0000, Jim O.
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
wrote:
> A mailing list is a forum of sorts but without the features of more
> sophisticated software.

a mailing list is something entirely different, imho.

> File attachments,

send mail with an attachment

> private messagiing,

send email to one person only (ie, outside the list)

> threaded discussions,

standard feature of non-broken MUAs (ie, mutt, Thunderbird, Evolution,
etc).


> easy access to older posts

mailing list archive, may be even downloadable


> to name but a few.

Forums typically have these additional drawbacks in my experience:

- synchronous communications - ie, it won't work if the forum server
 has a hiccup or is currently hacked.

- tends to mess up attachments

- stricter limits on attachment sizes

- centralized (even private messages need to go through the server)

- threading is usually sub-par with MUAs, flexible sorting and
 searching is usually not available

- sorting and searching taxes the server, not the client (as with MUAs)

- broken search results with about any search engines because whole
 threads appear on one page

- usually no downloadable archives

- tend to vanish in a whim if the admin loses interest, or if the forum
 package gets swapped (all links break, nobody fixes them, archives
 are lost forever)

- slow performance, high cost for the operator (much higher than a
 mailing list)



> It's simply another way to communicate and get/offer support.

Yes, and one that causes more fraction and friction to the user base
(imho).



Kind regards,
--Toni++
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 14:12
(Received via mailing list)
It's not just for deleting; as an alternative to loading your server
with
searches, we can search the [FORUM] tagged posts in the mailing list and
we
can filter them to a specific folder (this is my approach).
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 14:37
(Received via mailing list)
I was being tongue in cheek with that.

I actually edited it again so the thread title will (hopefully) also
appear in the email subject line. That should help anyone know whether
it's something that might be of interest.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Wilfried Schobeiri (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 14:50
(Received via mailing list)
Not to complain or anything... But does anyone else think perhaps this
should be taken off list or a separate list be made? My cell has never
been so flooded with emails before...

Regards,
WS

Sent via handheld


On Mar 13, 2009, at 14:27, "Jim O." <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 16:13
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Wilfried Schobeiri
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid>wrote:

> Not to add one more to the flood...  but this is an extremely valid point
no one initially considered.  We have members of this list, which
generally
gets a pretty light peppering of traffic, and we are going to be
spamming
them messages from a forum, which is quite likely (due to the nature of
webforums) to become much higher traffic and chatty than the email list.
Emails are (again, generally) much more considered than forum posts and
there is less of a tendency to post trivial/chatty messages to email
groups
than to forums.

Perhaps we should syndicate new forum threads only to this list, or a
completely different list.  We should be able to set up nginx.forums
list
and you can join that if you also would like to get the forum
information
bridged to your local mail.
Ian H. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 16:52
(Received via mailing list)
Dan Dascalescu wrote:
> I like Nabble more:
>
> http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html
>
>
There is no "prev" or "Next"! How do you get to older stuff in nabble?

Ian
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 17:41
(Received via mailing list)
I can set it for new threads only. That's easy. But that then obviates
the
idea of replying to a thread by email from the list.



Setting up a different list would be a non-starter in my opinion. If
people
want emails from a forum there are other ways of getting them without
creating yet another list.



I'd be happy to discuss this via my email or at the forum itself.
There's a
place for site suggestions, and that forum does not get posted to the
list.



From: removed_email_address@domain.invalid 
[mailto:removed_email_address@domain.invalid] On Behalf Of
Merlin
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:02 PM
To: removed_email_address@domain.invalid
Subject: Re: New wiki



On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Wilfried Schobeiri
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
wrote:

Not to complain or anything... But does anyone else think perhaps this
should be taken off list or a separate list be made? My cell has never
been
so flooded with emails before...



Regards,

WS



Sent via handheld



Not to add one more to the flood...  but this is an extremely valid
point no
one initially considered.  We have members of this list, which generally
gets a pretty light peppering of traffic, and we are going to be
spamming
them messages from a forum, which is quite likely (due to the nature of
webforums) to become much higher traffic and chatty than the email list.
Emails are (again, generally) much more considered than forum posts and
there is less of a tendency to post trivial/chatty messages to email
groups
than to forums.

Perhaps we should syndicate new forum threads only to this list, or a
completely different list.  We should be able to set up nginx.forums
list
and you can join that if you also would like to get the forum
information
bridged to your local mail.
Maxim D. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 17:57
(Received via mailing list)
Hello!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 06:31:35PM -0400, Jim O. wrote:

> I can set it for new threads only. That's easy. But that then obviates the
> idea of replying to a thread by email from the list.
>
> Setting up a different list would be a non-starter in my opinion. If people
> want emails from a forum there are other ways of getting them without
> creating yet another list.
>
> I'd be happy to discuss this via my email or at the forum itself. There's a
> place for site suggestions, and that forum does not get posted to the list.

As of now forum notifications is broken at least in following ways:

1. SHOOTING prefix in subject.

2. No valid References header, so no correct threading in mail
agents.

3. No valid From header thus making impossible to understand
who is message author without looking into message body.

4. No understanding of people posting to forum that this is in
fact post to mailing list and quoting rules should be significally
different from forum ones.

IMHO, either it the above should be fixed (and mailing list
integration done at least as good as that on ruby-forum,
effectively converting forum to yet another mailing list web
interface) or any integration with mailing list should be switched
off.

It's not clear to me who will answer questions on forum if the
mailing list integration will be switched off.  But with current
quality of integration it's not acceptable and will damage mailing
list usage.

Maxim D.
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 19:02
(Received via mailing list)
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 4:35 AM, Maxim D. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid>
wrote:

hah! great minds think alike!

Don't get me wrong. I -want- an active and thriving nginx forum. But
if guys like you and Igor only use the mailing list we're losing a
huge amount of mindshare about nginx if we can't tap your brains from
the forums. So integration to me is something I would like to see.

It all comes down to threaded discussions really. I like forums
because of threaded discussions, which essentially gmail does
already... perhaps Jim/Cliff/myself can try to figure out a list of
benefits offline as to why a person's mail client is not good enough
for this.

> As of now forum notifications is broken at least in following ways:
>
> 1. SHOOTING prefix in subject.
>
> 2. No valid References header, so no correct threading in mail
> agents.

this is a big one

> 3. No valid From header thus making impossible to understand
> who is message author without looking into message body.

this too.

> 4. No understanding of people posting to forum that this is in
> fact post to mailing list and quoting rules should be significally
> different from forum ones.
>
> IMHO, either it the above should be fixed (and mailing list
> integration done at least as good as that on ruby-forum,
> effectively converting forum to yet another mailing list web
> interface) or any integration with mailing list should be switched
> off.

exactly.
Andrew Deason (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 19:23
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:45:34 -0700
Dan Dascalescu <ddascalescu
removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:

> There is http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.nginx.english which has
> a threaded view and easy searching but not star-rating system for
> messages.

It has whatever features your user agent has if you access it as a news
group (which I thought gmane's main purpose was), which is the far
superior way to read it ;)
Jim O. (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 20:02
(Received via mailing list)
If you read the earlier messages you will see that I am trying to
accommodate the requests of a multitude of others who spoke up and made
requests. Those would include the specific PREFIX being used (a request
if Merlin) and multiple requests that entries be cross posted here to
the list. Then there would be my request to continue this discussion off
the list so as not to pollute the inboxes of those who are uninterested.

If the forum entries are "breaking" your MUA's threading system I
apologize. I can work on that but make no guarantees. I have asked for
help with list integration and Merlin has been gracious enough to
indicate that he might be willing to help.


To All:

I deeply regret the dissension that this has caused. A better place to
hash this out constructively would be in the "Site Suggestions" forum at
http://forum.nginx.org.  I will no longer respond to questions about
this subject on this list. That section of the forum is not posted here.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Walter Cruz (Guest)
on 2009-03-14 20:06
(Received via mailing list)
We need to update the wikipedia page too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nginx
Arvind Jayaprakash (Guest)
on 2009-03-15 15:39
(Received via mailing list)
On Mar 12, Cliff W. wrote:
>I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
>http://www.nginx-community.org.
>
>The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
>case there's anything there we still need to migrate.
>
>If anyone has any issues, please contact me.

Have we lost the old accounts/changelogs?
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-15 17:52
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 18:56 +0530, Arvind Jayaprakash wrote:
> On Mar 12, Cliff W. wrote:
> >I've gone ahead and redirected http://wiki.codemongers.com to
> >http://www.nginx-community.org.
> >
> >The old wiki is still available at http://oldwiki.nginx-community.org in
> >case there's anything there we still need to migrate.
> >
> >If anyone has any issues, please contact me.
>
> Have we lost the old accounts/changelogs?

I'm afraid so.

Cliff
Abhishek S. (Guest)
on 2009-03-16 09:53
(Received via mailing list)
Great effort Cliff and really well documented. i loved first page of the
wiki.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Cliff W. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> 
wrote:

>
>
>


--
Abhishek Kumar S.
ibibo web pvt. ltd.

www.ibibo.com

Mob: +91-9810848283
Daniel H. (Guest)
on 2009-03-16 13:58
(Received via mailing list)
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Cliff W. wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-03-12 at 23:09 +0300, Igor S. wrote:
>> Yes, this is how I usually do when I need to post in web form: I prepare
>> a text in vim and then paste it in web form. Sometimes there are formating
>> issues. And I hate this. With mutt/vim I have handly quoting and edit
>> environment.
>
> Igor, this is for you:
>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125

"It's All Text" is fine, but you don't need a plugin for that, if you
are using Vimperator (another Firefox plugin) already, which makes FF
behave like Vim.
It includes a "edit text input/textarea in an external editor" (Ctrl-I).

The 2.0 betas are stable (for me) already and I recommend using those
right away, if you want to try it.

Vimperator is really awesome, if you're a vimmer.


Cheers,
Daniel
Dan Dascalescu (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 03:03
(Received via mailing list)
>> http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html
>
> There is no "prev" or "Next"! How do you get to older stuff in nabble?

That's because Nabble started archiving the mailing list last week.

This is a LARGE problem with mailing lists that I don't see anyone
mentioning: the MUAs don't get old messages.

If you're on a mailing list, you only have the messages from the date
you subscribed. If you want to search for something, you need to go to
the mailing list archive. That archive is very much equivalent to a
forum, so why not just use a forum in the first place?

Dan
Maxim D. (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 12:05
(Received via mailing list)
Hello!

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 05:53:07PM -0700, Dan Dascalescu wrote:

> >> http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html
> >
> > There is no "prev" or "Next"! How do you get to older stuff in nabble?
>
> That's because Nabble started archiving the mailing list last week.
>
> This is a LARGE problem with mailing lists that I don't see anyone
> mentioning: the MUAs don't get old messages.

For nginx@ there are gmane with archive starting from 0.1.18
announce at 2005-02-09 (there were no traffic on list expect new
version announces at that time).   And there is nothing to stop
you from downloading this archive in mbox format.

Maxim D.
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 19:38
(Received via mailing list)
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Cliff W. <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> 
wrote:

> I'm afraid so.
>
> Cliff

Cliff - the new design is pretty cool, but I do have one complaint.

On pages like this:
http://wiki.nginx.org/NginxModules

Is there any way to just have it be a list, and not boxes? In certain
browser resolutions it's all messed up and it's much harder to follow
anyway. That's a pretty unique Mediawiki skin... good job in creating
it. Mediawiki can be a real PITA.

I'd say the same for any of the pages using the box format... it's
neat but it's not the most user-friendly IMHO.
Merlin (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 20:05
(Received via mailing list)
Mike,

There is a listing (it's the page contents) which is floated to the
top-right of the page.  If you would like to see a more traditional
mediawiki page, create yourself an account and visit
http://wiki.nginx.org/Special:Preferences .  From there you can change
your
skin to something more to your liking.  Alternatively, if you wish to
just
bookmark a link to something reminiscent of the old theme or maybe the
mediawiki default try this:
http://wiki.nginx.org/index.php?title=NginxModules... or
http://wiki.nginx.org/index.php?title=NginxModules... .

Cliff,

I love the new skin!  I agree with Mike though - Mediawiki is a PITA!

Thanks,
Merlin
Cliff W. (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 20:59
(Received via mailing list)
On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 10:26 -0700, mike wrote:
> Cliff - the new design is pretty cool, but I do have one complaint.
>
> On pages like this:
> http://wiki.nginx.org/NginxModules
>
> Is there any way to just have it be a list, and not boxes? In certain
> browser resolutions it's all messed up and it's much harder to follow
> anyway.

Yeah, I've been debating that layout.   The old layout (a list) didn't
work so well because there's the automatically generated list on the
right, so it became redundant.

I'll work on a better layout.

Just FYI, this here is a work in progress:

http://wiki.nginx.org/NginxModulesByExample

This isn't a replacement for a regular index, but I think it will prove
useful for people looking not only for module documentation, but a more
visual/contextual index layout.

> That's a pretty unique Mediawiki skin... good job in creating
> it. Mediawiki can be a real PITA.

Thanks!  It wasn't nearly as bad as I feared (once I'd gutted the
default skin).   I really wanted to avoid the "we tossed up a MediaWiki
site in a hurry" look.

> I'd say the same for any of the pages using the box format... it's
> neat but it's not the most user-friendly IMHO.

I'll work on this.  I tend to agree with you.

Cliff
mike (Guest)
on 2009-03-17 22:03
(Received via mailing list)
You can turn off the table of contents index for the page too.
Possibly even page level using proprietary mediawiki tags.

But yeah it does become a bit redundant with that many items on the
page having their own headers.
Ian H. (Guest)
on 2009-03-18 18:48
(Received via mailing list)
Dan Dascalescu wrote:
>>> http://n2.nabble.com/nginx-f2469901.html
>>>
>> There is no "prev" or "Next"! How do you get to older stuff in nabble?
>>
>
> That's because Nabble started archiving the mailing list last week.
>
>
Thanks. I hadn't thought of that.
> This is a LARGE problem with mailing lists that I don't see anyone
> mentioning: the MUAs don't get old messages.
>
> If you're on a mailing list, you only have the messages from the date
> you subscribed. If you want to search for something, you need to go to
> the mailing list archive. That archive is very much equivalent to a
> forum, so why not just use a forum in the first place?
>
>
Its easier to drop out of a forum but the list messages just keep
coming, so I suspect that community growth is easier and more stable on
a list.

Searching old messages in an archive is slow and hits the server hard.
Lets leave that for those who need it.

A forum is on-line only and therefore unattractive for people paying
metered connection charges.

I want both. Emailed messages and a browsable archive.

Ian
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