Forum: JRuby Last chance for JRubyOne...er...JavaOne proposals

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Charles Oliver N. (Guest)
on 2008-12-19 23:13
(Received via mailing list)
Today is the last day for JavaOne proposals, and we're really hoping to
get some "real" rubyists showing these Java guys how it's done. Right
now we've got some basic proposals for a Ruby language/classes/libraries
intro, a JRuby/Java integration talk, various deployment talks for
different servers, GUI and Graphics talks, and hopefully we'll get
someone from Rails core to do a Rails talk. But what are we missing? Do
you have a talk or know someone with a really convincing talk that would
help win over some of the Java masses?

At any rate, if you have anything you'd like to present to a big room
(our JRuby talks have been in a room that seats 1500), stop by
http://java.sun.com/javaone/ and give it a shot. There's a whole world
of developers there (15k people at JavaOne last year) that really need
to learn Ruby.

- Charlie

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Dean W. (Guest)
on 2008-12-19 23:30
(Received via mailing list)
Hey, Charlie,

I proposed a "polyglot" talk, where I'll make the case for "mixing it
up" on the JVM using one (or more) of JRuby, Scala, or Clojure. I
intend to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of each language and
how to choose what's best for your needs, etc., etc.

dean

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Charles Oliver N.
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> JRuby talks have been in a room that seats 1500), stop by
>
>
>



--
Dean W.
http://www.objectmentor.com
http://www.polyglotprogramming.com
http://www.aspectprogramming.com
http://aquarium.rubyforge.org
http://www.contract4j.org

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Robert D. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 00:17
(Received via mailing list)
I'll throw my hat into that ring. I like Java developers, and am not
afraid.

- Robert D.


On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Charles Oliver N. <
Charles Oliver N. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 00:25
(Received via mailing list)
Great Dean, sounds like a perfect topic. Maybe even more likely to get
in than a talk focused on a single language.

Dean W. wrote:
> <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
>> JRuby talks have been in a room that seats 1500), stop by
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


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Charles Oliver N. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 00:25
(Received via mailing list)
Thanks Robert :) I think this will be a great year for JRuby...we have
an opportunity to win over a lot of converts.

Robert D. wrote:
>     Right now we've got some basic proposals for a Ruby
>     world of developers there (15k people at JavaOne last year) that
>
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Tiago N. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 15:59
(Received via mailing list)
Charles Oliver N. escreveu:
> At any rate, if you have anything you'd like to present to a big room
> (our JRuby talks have been in a room that seats 1500), stop by
> http://java.sun.com/javaone/ and give it a shot. There's a whole world
> of developers there (15k people at JavaOne last year) that really need
> to learn Ruby.
>
> - Charlie
>
>
Hi Charlie,
I am reading this e-mail now, but i dont know too much about this
subject.Can you explain it to me? I am new in this mailing list but i
was vey interested in your words !!!
Big hug,
 - Tiago
Richard C. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 18:03
(Received via mailing list)
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Charles Oliver N.
<removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> JRuby talks have been in a room that seats 1500), stop by
> http://java.sun.com/javaone/ and give it a shot. There's a whole world of
> developers there (15k people at JavaOne last year) that really need to learn
> Ruby.

Hi Charles,
     I am not in the community or anything, but one thing I have
noticed in porting
my old Java skills over to Ruby is that you hit a lot of barriers and
have to do a
lot of yak shaving.

Most people are sold on the core message that Ruby/JRuby and Java is a
strong combination and it is worth investing in, but hit snags when they
try
and port over their concepts. There is a lot of work to retool their
infrastructure,
and not a lot of documentation, and productive Java teams need to invest
heavily
in infrastructure (build systems, CI, ant/maven/testing) in order to
be productive.

Even basic things like how you lay out your Ruby projects, produce gems,
use
gems and jars together etc. Is not well documented. Theres plenty of
tools out there,
but you have to find them, and most people coming to Ruby from Java
would probably
expect that their investment in learning Ruby, would go into the
'making features' bit -
Rails, Merb, RSpec, Haml, Monkeybars etc. And not scratching their
head as to how to
lay out big projects, get tests to work, relearn build systems
(ant,maven -> rake/buildr).
That stuff isn't fun in any language, and a lot of converts get bummed
at this stage.

A talk on this, 'The Migration Dilemna' that attempts to help out
people who are curious
would probably be very beneficial right about now. You could cover the
things that
really need to be known - Rake basics, Ruby project layout (e.g. with
Bones) and making
your own gems. Also, introducing the various JRuby bridges is
essential - how to make
Java and Ruby work together in common scenarios (like jruby-rack,
warbler, glassfish-gem).

You could deal with bootstrapping applications with JRuby from either
way, like having Ruby
launch Java or Java instantiate Ruby. And you would need to cover the
various tools that allow
you to keep your existing investment in build systems and tests, but
call it from Ruby
(JTestR, rake with ant support and buildr/raven).

Its just a thought, but I think the time is right for a piece like
this - something that ties together
the various pieces of the puzzle. Its beyond my ability to do this (I
hack on JRuby in my spare time,
hoping I can get my skills good enough to apply them to legacy
applications at work). But there
must be a lot more people in my situation - trying to leverage JRuby
and Ruby to help out their
Java projects that are losing steam. Its actually easier to make the
switch entirely to something
like Rails and just War it up in the end, than it is to solve all of
the smaller problems that
prevent you from introducing pieces of Ruby into existing Java code
seamlessly.

regards,
Richard.

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Charles Oliver N. (Guest)
on 2008-12-20 20:35
(Received via mailing list)
Richard C. wrote:
> like Rails and just War it up in the end, than it is to solve all of
> the smaller problems that
> prevent you from introducing pieces of Ruby into existing Java code seamlessly.

There have been a few such talks, but there's certainly a need for more
of this information. I suppose it's a bit more difficult for us on the
JRuby team to do this talk since we are somewhat blinded to the pain of
someone making that migration unless you all tell us about it. And in
fact I'd say that in general we need more talks, tutorials, and
walkthroughs from the community perspective, since I think they're more
illustrative of the challenges new JRuby users actually face.

So yeah, I definitely sympathize, and hopefully we'll have more and more
people who have successfully migrated to help build out those docs and
run those presentations.

- Charlie

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