Forum: Ruby [ANN] Ruby Forum

Announcement (2017-05-07): www.ruby-forum.com is now read-only since I unfortunately do not have the time to support and maintain the forum any more. Please see rubyonrails.org/community and ruby-lang.org/en/community for other Rails- und Ruby-related community platforms.
Andreas S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 01:02
Hi,

I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing
lists:

http://www.ruby-forum.com/

If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.

Andreas
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 02:20
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Andreas S. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing
> lists:
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/
>
> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.

Wow!  I think that's just smooth.  Nice job.

James Edward G. II
Toby DiPasquale (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 02:49
james wrote:
> On Nov 13, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Andreas S. wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing
>> lists:
>>
>> http://www.ruby-forum.com/
>>
>> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.
>
> Wow!  I think that's just smooth.  Nice job.

Yes, very. This might become the preferred way to monitor this list ;-)
ara.t.howard (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 03:05
(Received via mailing list)
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005, Andreas S. wrote:

> I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing lists:
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/

very cool

> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.

1)
   a way to rank/vote for threads would be an immense resource to the
communtiy.
   a collection of the most popular threads would be such a great
learning tool -
   you could seed it with the 100 largest and let the voting take off
from there.

   ideally there would be a way to vote from the list itself.. eg a
message
   with the body

     ruby-talk ranking : 99

   or some simple way so we don't have to pull up web browsers to do it.

2) people with non-threading muas should be banned from being archived
on the
site.  ;-)

cheers.

-a
Anon (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 03:31
I _love_ how simple the design is.

Anon
gregory.t.brown (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 03:41
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/13/05, Anon <forumpost@> wrote:
> I _love_ how simple the design is.

Yes.  This is very nice.  And I love the suggestion for voting.
I'd also like to see user modifyable tags if possible.

Then we can categorize posts and make it really easy to search them.
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 03:59
(Received via mailing list)
Toby DiPasquale wrote:

> james wrote:

> > On Nov 13, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Andreas S. wrote:

> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing
> > > lists:
> > >
> > > http://www.ruby-forum.com/
> > >
> > > If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a
> > > mail.

> > Wow!  I think that's just smooth.  Nice job.

> Yes, very. This might become the preferred way to monitor this list
> ;-)

Why, exactly?  People may use any method they prefer, but what's wrong
with ruby-talk.org, google-groups, gmane, the newsgroup gateway, or the
actual mailing list?

I find forums to be the most inefficient way to manage information of
all of the above.

        nikolai
Nshbrown N. (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 04:08
(Received via mailing list)
This is a wonderful piece of software.

A few features I would like to see:

- It needs a RegEX to remove all email addresses from the message body
(removed_email_address@domain.invalid -> john.doe@...)

- While removing the email addresses, it should scan them to see if any
of
the registered members have that email, if so then link to that user to
send
them a private message

- Notifications. This is one of the main things that I would see greatly
shifting me to use the site primarily. Within my user preferences, to be
able to customize my key words and add flags. So if someone mentions
"Engines" I get a notification sent to me, with the thread that has
accumulated already. When new messages arrive to threads I have already
received, I only receive the pieces that are new.

- Someone else said this already, but I want to emphasize how sweet it
would
be to track all messages by a certain email (whether they are registered
or
not) as well as registered members. It would also be great to include
this
in the search feature as well, to be able to filter the messages by
user.
There are a few key people that I would like to keep tabs on ;) In
addition,
when viewing a profile, to list all the recent posts by this user.

- Someone mentioned this already as well, to be able to categorize the
message threads by tag. Allowing people to tag things with similar style
to
that of de.licio.us, whereby there is a list of recommended tags
available
below the input which scans the email and grabs the keywords based on
the
index of tags already. Actually, automated tagging would be sweet. Where
people don't have to actually tag anything, it just scans the message
for a
index of keywords and whatever ones it finds, it tags it with. So if
someone
says "Engines" in there message, or "ActiveRecord" or "AR", then the
message
gets tagged.

- Users could add additional index tags if they feel its necessary, such
as
"acts_as_authenticated", or "ACL".

In all, these would only make what you have done that much better. But
even
without these suggestions, it's a great tool. Nice work!

Warmest regards,
Nathan.
twifkak (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 04:47
(Received via mailing list)
Nikolai W. wrote:

>>Yes, very. This might become the preferred way to monitor this list
>>;-)
>>
>>
>Why, exactly?  People may use any method they prefer, but what's wrong
>with ruby-talk.org, google-groups, gmane, the newsgroup gateway, or the
>actual mailing list?
>
>
An advantage that the web forum adds is that it sorts threads by date of
most recent posting, rather than first post. (I wish Thunderbird had
that option.) Another is that it's both portable (thin-client) and
personal (keeps track of read/unread via your username).

I'll keep using the mailing list, myself; I'm just trying to answer your
question.

Devin
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 06:03
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 7:58 PM, Nikolai W. wrote:

> Why, exactly?  People may use any method they prefer, but what's wrong
> with ruby-talk.org, google-groups, gmane, the newsgroup gateway, or
> the
> actual mailing list?

I could list a whole lot of things I find very wrong with gmane...  ;)

Seriously, I don't subscribe to the Rails list, because the traffic
is too much for me, in addition to Ruby T..  I do sometimes need to
search there or ask questions and this will be quite perfect for that.

Just one opinion.

James Edward G. II
lyndon.samson (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 07:54
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/14/05, James Edward G. II <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> is too much for me, in addition to Ruby T..  I do sometimes need to
> search there or ask questions and this will be quite perfect for that.
>
> Just one opinion.
>
> James Edward G. II
>
>
>

I allways found this http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ruby-talk&r=1&w=2
pretty good.
surrender_it (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 13:58
(Received via mailing list)
Devin M. ha scritto:

> An advantage that the web forum adds is that it sorts threads by date of
> most recent posting, rather than first post. (I wish Thunderbird had
> that option.)

is'nt that what you get by clicking on "date"?
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 15:25
(Received via mailing list)
James Edward G. II wrote:

> On Nov 13, 2005, at 7:58 PM, Nikolai W. wrote:

> > Why, exactly?  People may use any method they prefer, but what's
> > wrong with ruby-talk.org, google-groups, gmane, the newsgroup
> > gateway, or  the actual mailing list?

> I could list a whole lot of things I find very wrong with gmane...  ;)

What about google-groups?

        nikolai
twifkak (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 15:37
(Received via mailing list)
gabriele renzi wrote:

> Devin M. ha scritto:
>
>> An advantage that the web forum adds is that it sorts threads by date
>> of most recent posting, rather than first post. (I wish Thunderbird
>> had that option.)
>
> is'nt that what you get by clicking on "date"?

In unthreaded mode, all the posts are intermingled. Right now, I'm
looking at Re: Rmagic 1.9, Re: Heirarchy T.., Re: [ANN] Ferret, Re:
rubycocoa, Re: Forum, etc. in the message index pane. I prefer,
actually, to sort by Order Received because senders' mail clients often
lie (or are confused) about the current datetime.

In threaded mode, posts are grouped together and put in pretty threads.
However, a thread that was created at the dawn of time stays at the very
bottom my list, even if it was just replied to a minute ago. Since I
only read about 30% of ruby-talk, that means I'd never notice it, 'cause
it's just another old unread message. Rather, if threads were sorted by
*most* recent posting, I'd see it as I scroll by the new posts, and get
to decide what I want to do with it. (You can argue about the utility of
this feature with yourself, but it is [AFAIK] different from what
Thunderbird provides.)

Devin
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 15:37
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 11:52 PM, Lyndon S. wrote:

> I allways found this http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=ruby-talk&r=1&w=2
> pretty good.

I didn't see the Rails mailing list there.  Please correct me if I'm
wrong.

James Edward G. II
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 15:40
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:

> What about google-groups?

The Rails mailing list is on Google G.???  Excellent!  Can I have
a link please?

James Edward G. II
Pavel S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 16:35
james wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:
>
>> What about google-groups?
>
> The Rails mailing list is on Google G.???  Excellent!  Can I have
> a link please?
>
> James Edward G. II

This one?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby?hl=en

PS
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 16:38
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 14, 2005, at 8:35 AM, Pavel Sokolov wrote:

>>
>> James Edward G. II
>>
>
> This one?
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby?hl=en

Nope.  That's the Ruby T. mailing list, which I already have
bookmarked.  It's the "Rails mailing list" I can't find there...  ;)

James Edward G. II
Pavel S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 16:38
elgato wrote:
> james wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:
>>
>>> What about google-groups?
>>
>> The Rails mailing list is on Google G.???  Excellent!  Can I have
>> a link please?
>>
>> James Edward G. II
>
> This one?
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby?hl=en
>
> PS

no. nethermind. sorry for noise
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 17:11
(Received via mailing list)
James Edward G. II wrote:

> On Nov 14, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Nikolai W. wrote:

> > What about google-groups?

> The Rails mailing list is on Google G.???  Excellent!  Can I have
> a link please?

Ah.

Still, I don't see the point of having ruby-talk in forum form?

        nikolai
surrender_it (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 17:59
(Received via mailing list)
Devin M. ha scritto:
<snip>
thanks now I understand what you mean
kero (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 18:14
(Received via mailing list)
> lie (or are confused) about the current datetime.
Or the machines they run on. As I recall from the days I used elm to
read my
mail and most ppl replied from PCs using a puny form of DOS or win31
that
hadn't even heard of NTP. But an occasional high rate of writing emails.

Or clients that ignore the IDs that are put in various headers to make
threading easier (that's where google mail gets bonus points).

> In threaded mode, posts are grouped together and put in pretty threads.
> However, a thread that was created at the dawn of time stays at the very
> bottom my list, even if it was just replied to a minute ago. Since I
> only read about 30% of ruby-talk, that means I'd never notice it, 'cause
> it's just another old unread message. Rather, if threads were sorted by
> *most* recent posting, I'd see it as I scroll by the new posts, and get
> to decide what I want to do with it. (You can argue about the utility of
> this feature with yourself, but it is [AFAIK] different from what
> Thunderbird provides.)

That's what you would use scoring for, or delete a thread that is not
interesting, or other ways of archiving. mutt provides me with TAB to go
to
New mails (or old&unread if there's no New mail).

I read ruby-lang on usenet, because I prefer pulling for such a
(reasonably)
high volume list. gmail is out because it represents threads as lists,
not
as trees.

IMHO, it's in the tools, not in another archive that holds the same
content.

Bye,
Kero.
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 20:06
(Received via mailing list)
Kero wrote:

> > In threaded mode, posts are grouped together and put in pretty
> > threads.  However, a thread that was created at the dawn of time
> > stays at the very bottom my list, even if it was just replied to a
> > minute ago. Since I only read about 30% of ruby-talk, that means I'd
> > never notice it, 'cause it's just another old unread message.
> > Rather, if threads were sorted by *most* recent posting, I'd see it
> > as I scroll by the new posts, and get to decide what I want to do
> > with it. (You can argue about the utility of this feature with
> > yourself, but it is [AFAIK] different from what Thunderbird
> > provides.)

> That's what you would use scoring for, or delete a thread that is not
> interesting, or other ways of archiving. mutt provides me with TAB to
> go to New mails (or old&unread if there's no New mail).

I agree.

> I read ruby-lang on usenet, because I prefer pulling for such a
> (reasonably) high volume list. gmail is out because it represents
> threads as lists, not as trees.

Yes, I've long been thinking of reinstalling slrn and going the usenet
way for this list instead.  But as more and more usenet servers are
closing, it really hasn't been an alternative.  It'd be nice if Google'd
provide an NNTP service.

The really perverted way of reading ruby-lang is reading it through
GMANE's NNTP server :-).

> IMHO, it's in the tools, not in another archive that holds the same
> content.

Yes, so far that's what I've been thinking for every suggestion for
improvement (to the forum) that has come up in this thread.  Still,
perhaps not everyone is comfortable in using mutt.  I wouldn't know why,
but that may be so.  I'm uncomfortable in using anything _but_ mutt, but
that's me.

        nikolai
halostatue (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 20:33
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/13/05, Nathaniel S. H. Brown <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> - It needs a RegEX to remove all email addresses from the message body
> (removed_email_address@domain.invalid -> john.doe@...)

This is ultimately nonsensical, as the public archives have the email
addresses in plaintext.

-austin
Nshbrown N. (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 21:17
(Received via mailing list)
Having one less place where spam filters can grab my email address, I
would
indeed like to see added :)

The public archives *hopefully* have filters for headers that prevent
this
sort of thing, but in any case, this is something that should be done by
default. Google has implemented this as well.

Warmest regards,
Nathan.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Nathaniel S. H. Brown                 Toll Free 1.877.4.INIMIT
Inimit Innovations                        Phone   604.724.6624
www.inimit.com                              Fax   604.444.9942
halostatue (Guest)
on 2005-11-14 23:17
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/14/05, Nathaniel S. H. Brown <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> Having one less place where spam filters can grab my email address, I would
> indeed like to see added :)
>
> The public archives *hopefully* have filters for headers that prevent this
> sort of thing, but in any case, this is something that should be done by
> default. Google has implemented this as well.

Hm? Filters for headers? As I said, the public archives pretty much
have the email addresses. The only distinction is that they have
replaced '@' with ' '. It's, quite honestly, something that probably
isn't worth the coding time to change at this point.

-austin
twifkak (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 02:14
(Received via mailing list)
Kero wrote:

>That's what you would use scoring for, or delete a thread that is not
>interesting, or other ways of archiving. mutt provides me with TAB to go to
>New mails (or old&unread if there's no New mail).
>
>
No, it's what *you* would use those things for. None of them (I Googled
to find out what scoring is) suit my needs/taste adequately.
Nonetheless, why are we arguing about an off-hand Thunderbird feature
request I made on this list?

>IMHO, it's in the tools, not in another archive that holds the same content.
>
>
What is mutt, but another (local) archive that holds the same content?
What makes the web forum view not just another tool?

Devin
Lou S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 02:28
Andreas;

This looks splendid.  Well done.

> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.

My only suggestion is kinda knit-pickedy, but it's hard to tell which
threads have already been read in the thread list.  Maybe a bit more
contrast for the followed links?

Again, great job.


--
Lou
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 03:20
(Received via mailing list)
Devin M. wrote:

> Kero wrote:

> > That's what you would use scoring for, or delete a thread that is
> > not interesting, or other ways of archiving. mutt provides me with
> > TAB to go to New mails (or old&unread if there's no New mail).

> No, it's what *you* would use those things for. None of them (I
> Googled to find out what scoring is) suit my needs/taste adequately.
> Nonetheless, why are we arguing about an off-hand Thunderbird feature
> request I made on this list?

Scoring is precisely what you described yourself.  You can give
messages/threads positive and negative scores depending on various
attributes of said entity.

        nikolai
twifkak (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 03:33
(Received via mailing list)
Nikolai W. wrote:

>Scoring is precisely what you described yourself.  You can give
>messages/threads positive and negative scores depending on various
>attributes of said entity.
>
>
Err? Honest confusion. How is that the same as (or isomorphic to)
sorting threads by date of most recent post?

Devin
oh yeah... [OT]
steve (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 06:27
(Received via mailing list)
You guys all need imap + a mail client that threads well.  I'm on
dovecot+Mail.app(+postfix+procmail), and it's just fine.  Use
Thunderbird sometimes too.  Whatever...

For those of you that can't get such a setup, use wtf you want,
webforum, nntp, imap, pop3, straight up mail, whatever who cares.

--Steve
Andreas S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 13:30
ljscoras wrote:
> Andreas;
>
> This looks splendid.  Well done.

Thanks.

>> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.
>
> My only suggestion is kinda knit-pickedy, but it's hard to tell which
> threads have already been read in the thread list.  Maybe a bit more
> contrast for the followed links?

If you are logged in threads with posts that you have not yet read are
displayed in bold face.
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 23:38
(Received via mailing list)
Devin M. wrote:

> Nikolai W. wrote:

> > Scoring is precisely what you described yourself.  You can give
> > messages/threads positive and negative scores depending on various
> > attributes of said entity.

> Err? Honest confusion. How is that the same as (or isomorphic to)
> sorting threads by date of most recent post?

Ah, I misread.  Scoring allows you to give messages a positive or
negative score depending on attributes of a message.  The attributes
that may be scored upon are numerous, so you best consult mutt's manual
(which has scoring), or if you use NNTP, slrn's manual.  There's also a
separate document about it: http://slrn.sourceforge.net/docs/score.txt.

Thus, instead of sorting your threads in "having the most recent
messages first" mode, you could see to it that uninteresting threads are
removed/ignored, that certain threads are given a higher score than
others and sort based on score (set sort=score in mutt).  (You could
also do 'set sort=threads' and 'set sort_aux=score'.  I don't know for
sure, but hopefully it'll sort on date if two threads have the same
score.)

        nikolai
Andrew T. (Guest)
on 2005-11-15 23:52
This is really cool, I'm not a big fan of high-traffic mailinglists (I
tend to not read them for a couple days then find I'm swamped). This
should fit my reading habits better (I can swing by and see what's
interesting without pulling 500 emails).

I have a couple ideas; would it be possible to have a generic "reply"
option in addition to the "reply with quote"(so I don't have to delete
text)? Would it be possible to try to join broken threads with the
original parent using some heuristic? What about expanding the
line-length so it actually uses more then 1/4 of my screen width? How
about displaying quotes better? Previewing might be handy too...

I actually tried something like this myself a couple years back, except
I did it in PHP so I was doomed to frustration and failure. I'm annoyed
that I don't have enough free time so I could offer to help with this,
but maybe that will change.

Andrew
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 00:11
(Received via mailing list)
Andrew T. wrote:

> This is really cool, I'm not a big fan of high-traffic mailinglists (I
> tend to not read them for a couple days then find I'm swamped). This
> should fit my reading habits better (I can swing by and see what's
> interesting without pulling 500 emails).

How is it easier to read 500 emails in forum form?

> I have a couple ideas; would it be possible to have a generic "reply"
> option in addition to the "reply with quote"(so I don't have to delete
> text)?

Or better yet, reply to the pertinent message and remove any text that
isn't relevant to your reply, instead of replying to some random message
in the thread.

> Would it be possible to try to join broken threads with the original
> parent using some heuristic?

In a perfect world, all MUAs would produce In-Reply-To and References
headers.

> What about expanding the line-length so it actually uses more then 1/4
> of my screen width?

The line-length is probably set at 72 or some such, as most people send
emails with 72-characters-per-line-long lines

        nikolai
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 00:20
(Received via mailing list)
Nikolai W. wrote:

> Devin M. wrote:

> > Nikolai W. wrote:

> > > Scoring is precisely what you described yourself.  You can give
> > > messages/threads positive and negative scores depending on various
> > > attributes of said entity.

> > Err? Honest confusion. How is that the same as (or isomorphic to)
> > sorting threads by date of most recent post?

> also do 'set sort=threads' and 'set sort_aux=score'.  I don't know for
> sure, but hopefully it'll sort on date if two threads have the same
> score.)

Actually, the best way to do this exactly what you wanted, i.e., sorting
threads by most recent mail is (in mutt):

set sort=threads
set sort_aux=last-date-received

        nikolai
Andrew T. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 00:54
> How is it easier to read 500 emails in forum form?

Well, I can easily see what threads have had updates since I've read
them, and I can easily ignore entire threads. Also, I spend a lot more
time in a browser then a mail client

> Or better yet, reply to the pertinent message and remove any text that
> isn't relevant to your reply, instead of replying to some random message
> in the thread.
>

And when you don't have a particular reply to reply to? (I usually do
the above when I'm replying to something specific, like right now).

> In a perfect world, all MUAs would produce In-Reply-To and References
> headers.

Yeah, but we self evidently do not, which is why I proposed something to
augment those.

> The line-length is probably set at 72 or some such, as most people send
> emails with 72-characters-per-line-long lines

I'm in a browser, I don't need my lines wrapped at 72 characters, I'd
prefer to have them wrapped depending on the size of my browser window.

Andrew
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 01:08
(Received via mailing list)
Andrew T. wrote:

> > How is it easier to read 500 emails in forum form?

> Well, I can easily see what threads have had updates since I've read
> them, and I can easily ignore entire threads. Also, I spend a lot more
> time in a browser then a mail client

Likewise.  Thank you mutt(1).

> > Or better yet, reply to the pertinent message and remove any text
> > that isn't relevant to your reply, instead of replying to some
> > random message in the thread.

> And when you don't have a particular reply to reply to? (I usually do
> the above when I'm replying to something specific, like right now).

And why was my message the one you replied to?  (I'm not looking for an
argument, honest.)

> > In a perfect world, all MUAs would produce In-Reply-To and References
> > headers.

> Yeah, but we self evidently do not, which is why I proposed something to
> augment those.

Both you and I have MUAs that add those headers (well ruby-forum does
it, even though it's strictly not an MUA).

> > The line-length is probably set at 72 or some such, as most people
> > send emails with 72-characters-per-line-long lines

> I'm in a browser, I don't need my lines wrapped at 72 characters, I'd
> prefer to have them wrapped depending on the size of my browser window.

Yes, but how would you determine what lines to join?

Furthermore, the human brain, together with the human eye, prefers to
process lines that contain about 72 (note the about) characters.

        nikolai
Andrew T. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 01:34
> Likewise.  Thank you mutt(1).

Yeah, I saw this one coming :) I'm just stating my personal preference,
I prefer a forum to a mailinglist any day.


> And why was my message the one you replied to?  (I'm not looking for an
> argument, honest.)

Last one in the thread at the time, what else should I have done?


> Both you and I have MUAs that add those headers (well ruby-forum does
> it, even though it's strictly not an MUA).
>

Indeed, but there's *always* broken threads on just about any
mailinglist I've ever been on and it annoys me, especially when its an
interesting topic and I'd like to see the whole thing in one piece, not
all scattered across the archives

> Yes, but how would you determine what lines to join?

Well, one possibility might be to run all lines together that did not
have an empty line between them and let the browser wrap them. I haven't
really thought about *how* this would be done though. It might be more
problematic then I thought.

> Furthermore, the human brain, together with the human eye, prefers to
> process lines that contain about 72 (note the about) characters.

If you say so, I find the wrapping on most emails kind of annoying, it
also makes things a lot longer vertically then they would be if they
wrapped in a more efficent fashion.

Andrew
kero (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 02:05
(Received via mailing list)
>>IMHO, it's in the tools, not in another archive that holds the same content.
>>
>>
> What is mutt, but another (local) archive that holds the same content?
> What makes the web forum view not just another tool?

mutt is a local tool for a local copy. It does not need to scale,
because it
is an endpoint. my endpoint.

a webbased forum is a public proxy for an already complicated
newsgroup-mailinglist combo. The fact that it is possible to make this
does
not make it a good idea by itself.

The specific argument I responded to is like "it provides me the view on
the
list I never had" and that's IMHO an *extremely* thin argument.

The reason behind all this is that I fear needless fragmentation. The
Ruby
community grows, it will have to fragment to some extent, we can't
populate
a mailing list with ten times more people. Rails split off the main
lists,
main IRC, even gets its own conference. Fine, it seems a clear cut
distinction (but given all other useful web frameworks in Ruby, I doubt
it
deserves to be this clear cut).

We have to be critical of new development.

Kero.
gregory.t.brown (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 02:44
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/15/05, Kero <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:

> The reason behind all this is that I fear needless fragmentation. The Ruby
> community grows, it will have to fragment to some extent, we can't populate
> a mailing list with ten times more people. Rails split off the main lists,
> main IRC, even gets its own conference. Fine, it seems a clear cut
> distinction (but given all other useful web frameworks in Ruby, I doubt it
> deserves to be this clear cut).
>
> We have to be critical of new development.

It will only fragment if the shards are appealing enough to attract
people.

I personally use a combination of mailing list and reading
comp.lang.ruby online via google groups,  and I don't feel like it
takes me away from any of that.

Instead, I think it's encouraging us to get new traffic from people
who have not yet found the list or usenet group.  Your personal choice
has not been effected in anyway.

If the new forum results in an influx of spam, poorly formatted
emails, etc, then yeah, we can complain then.   But right now, I see
it as a unifier and a new point of entry for people into the ruby
community, rather than a fragmentation.

I only recently signed up on the list, but I've been monitoring
comp.lang.ruby for about a year.  I think the trend goes towards the
center, not away from it.  I doubt this forum is going to steal people
away from ruby-talk :-/

As far as the Rails conference goes... I think that's great too.  It
lightens the pressure on the RubyConf to be rails oriented, and if you
enjoy both, you have two conferences to look forward two now! :)  (i'm
planning on attending both Rails and RubyConf 2006)
james (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 03:09
(Received via mailing list)
On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Kero wrote:

> a webbased forum is a public proxy for an already complicated
> newsgroup-mailinglist combo. The fact that it is possible to make
> this does
> not make it a good idea by itself.

For all practical purposes, what has been created here is just
another MUA and the author has decided to share it.

I'm very surprised at the negative response on this.  I think it's
great.

James Edward G. II
gregory.t.brown (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 03:24
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/15/05, James Edward G. II <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:

> For all practical purposes, what has been created here is just
> another MUA and the author has decided to share it.

Exactly.  Google G. already does what this does, but it's in their
hands and not the hands of a hopefully suggestion friendly maintainer.
 I don't see what's wrong with having the same mechanism as google
groups but with more openness to community input.

> I'm very surprised at the negative response on this.  I think it's
> great.

So do I.  I love vim and the GPL, but I try really hard not to say no
one should ever use Emacs or the MIT license.   (I like one more than
the other of the two mentioned)

People should not personal choices get in the way of others personal
choices.  To me, the more the merrier, and the ghost of Tim Toady
would be proud of our community with it's many diverse ways of getting
involved :)
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 04:27
(Received via mailing list)
Andrew T. wrote:

> > Likewise.  Thank you mutt(1).

> Yeah, I saw this one coming :) I'm just stating my personal
> preference, I prefer a forum to a mailinglist any day.

> > And why was my message the one you replied to?  (I'm not looking for
> > an argument, honest.)

> Last one in the thread at the time, what else should I have done?

This is precisely why a list-view of a thread is such a bad paradigm.
You "should have" responded to the initial message, as your response was
directed at that message (or the thread as a whole as it were), not my
response to it in particular.

> > Furthermore, the human brain, together with the human eye, prefers
> > to process lines that contain about 72 (note the about) characters.

> If you say so, I find the wrapping on most emails kind of annoying, it
> also makes things a lot longer vertically then they would be if they
> wrapped in a more efficent fashion.

Give me verticality over horizontality any day! ;-)

        nikolai
mailing-lists.ruby-talk (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 04:30
(Received via mailing list)
James Edward G. II wrote:

> I'm very surprised at the negative response on this.  I think it's
> great.

My responses haven't been negative, I hope.  I've tried to keep a level
head here and simply ask why (on Earth) anyone would want a forum view.
To me, forums are about the worst way to present information.  But all I
wanted to know was the reasons for people liking it.  I don't care if
people use it or not, as long as it doesn't have an adverse effect on
this list as a whole.

        nikolai
Nshbrown N. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 04:48
(Received via mailing list)
> The reason behind all this is that I fear needless
> fragmentation. The Ruby community grows, it will have to
> fragment to some extent, we can't populate a mailing list
> with ten times more people. Rails split off the main lists,
> main IRC, even gets its own conference. Fine, it seems a
> clear cut distinction (but given all other useful web
> frameworks in Ruby, I doubt it deserves to be this clear cut).

I organize Vancouver Ruby Association (vanruby.com), and found that
during
our meetings 70% of the attendance interest was on Rails. We recently
did a
presentation on SOAP4R, a great technology, but what everyone was
interested
in was how it applied to Rails. As the talk went on, we discussed Rails
ActionWebService and such.

When interest is this high, and people are focused on the
implementation,
rather than the foundation, it would seem natural to encourage
conferences
such as Canada on Rails, which are specifically geared for such
interest.

Once you have gone to an event such a CoR, and have a superficial
understanding of the implementation, then you dive deeper into the
language,
and go for RubyConf, and more core technologies.

I have been learning Rails for several months now, and at first I was
simply
learning the MVC principles and architecture, but once I want to dive
deeper
into the functionality and build a serious application, I found I needed
very drastically to get familiar with the language it was built on,
Ruby. If
I didn't have the entrance point of Rails, I likely would not be
organizing
the Rails conference, which will in turn promote Ruby by default :)

Warmest regards,
Nathaniel
blargity (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 05:54
(Received via mailing list)
On Tuesday 15 November 2005 20:46, Nathaniel S. H. Brown wrote:
> I have been learning Rails for several months now, and at first I was
> simply learning the MVC principles and architecture, but once I want to
> dive deeper into the functionality and build a serious application, I found
> I needed very drastically to get familiar with the language it was built
> on, Ruby. If I didn't have the entrance point of Rails, I likely would not
> be organizing the Rails conference, which will in turn promote Ruby by
> default :)

This is great.  Some of us come from the other side, as I had no idea
what
Ruby was or why I should care.  The project I'm writing will have a web
piece, so my boss (who is very smart) was looking at RoR.  We decided on
Ruby
for the application, regardless of web framework, as it's not simply a
web
app, and here I am.  So it was rails that got me into Ruby, but I still
haven't used it.  Ever. :-)

I love Ruby, and even more, love getting paid to write in it. :-)
(thanks matz, you already have a spot in the glory box.)
wrbriggs (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 07:49
(Received via mailing list)
Not sure if this is related to the Rails mailing list:
http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails?lnk=li
J. Merrill (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 19:48
blargity wrote (in part):
> I love Ruby, and even more, love getting paid to write in it. :-)

Can I work there? <g>
J. M. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 20:15
andreas wrote:
> I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing lists:
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/
>
> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.

I very much like the "if you log in, threads with messages you haven't
read are in bold" feature.  And the "sort threads by most recent
activity feature".

But it would be _much_ more useful if it used the info more, so that
when I go into a thread where I've not read (say) the last 3 out of 40
messages, instead of having to jump to the bottom and move up to see the
newest stuff, the page produced had

Display already-read messages
-----------------------------      (that's supposed to be a URL)

followed by the messages I haven't yet read.  That would mean that I'd
be fine if I had only read 23 of the 40 messages as well...

(Can we get to threads older than the ones shown?  Activity seems to be
falling off the bottom quickly, unless I read from the bottom up....)

The option for a hierarchical display of sender / time / header, with
bold marking unread posts, showing only text for unread posts, and an
AJAX mechanism to get the text of any/all desired already-read posts --
that would be truly excellent.

There were some discussions about people having a way to vote for
threads.  That, and a way to nominate answers for some kind of FAQ,
would be other great additions.  Are you planning either of those?

Thanks for the effort.
Andreas S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 20:23
j-merrill wrote:
> I very much like the "if you log in, threads with messages you haven't
> read are in bold" feature.  And the "sort threads by most recent
> activity feature".
>
> But it would be _much_ more useful if it used the info more, so that
> when I go into a thread where I've not read (say) the last 3 out of 40
> messages, instead of having to jump to the bottom and move up to see the
> newest stuff

The forum creates an anchor called "new" on the first new post, so if
you open the topic your browser should jump to the first post you
haven't read yet. Doesn't this work for you?

> The option for a hierarchical display of sender / time / header, with
> bold marking unread posts, showing only text for unread posts, and an
> AJAX mechanism to get the text of any/all desired already-read posts --
> that would be truly excellent.

That should not be too hard to implement. Though other things are more
important first.

> There were some discussions about people having a way to vote for
> threads.  That, and a way to nominate answers for some kind of FAQ,
> would be other great additions.  Are you planning either of those?

Voting is planned (actually it's already implemented in the model, only
the view/controller stuff is missing).
J. M. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 20:35
andreas wrote:
> j-merrill wrote:
>> I very much like the "if you log in, threads with messages you haven't
>> read are in bold" feature.  And the "sort threads by most recent
>> activity feature".
>>
>> But it would be _much_ more useful if it used the info more, so that
>> when I go into a thread where I've not read (say) the last 3 out of 40
>> messages, instead of having to jump to the bottom and move up to see the
>> newest stuff
>
> The forum creates an anchor called "new" on the first new post, so if
> you open the topic your browser should jump to the first post you
> haven't read yet. Doesn't this work for you?

Hmmm, it might well -- this is the only thread that's had new posts (by
someone other than me) since I read it, and it seems I got directly to
the message I'm replying to when it (again) was shown as bold.

We'll see when you answer this.


What's the story about getting to older threads?
Andreas S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 20:40
j-merrill wrote:

> What's the story about getting to older threads?

http://www.ruby-forum.com/forum/4?page=2
J. M. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 21:05
andreas wrote:
> j-merrill wrote:
>
>> What's the story about getting to older threads?
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/forum/4?page=2

Thanks.  Why not have a link to that (and the prev and next) and the
bottom and/or top of each page?


BTW, the anchor is working fine.  Thanks for this effort.

Note that I am still getting the mails, because I can use "X1 Desktop
Search" on them.  Have you considered using David B.'s "Ferret" to
provide a search mechanism for the forum?
lukfugl (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 21:12
(Received via mailing list)
On 11/16/05, J. Merrill <removed_email_address@domain.invalid> wrote:
> andreas wrote:
> > j-merrill wrote:
> >
> >> What's the story about getting to older threads?
> >
> > http://www.ruby-forum.com/forum/4?page=2
>
> Thanks.  Why not have a link to that (and the prev and next) and the
> bottom and/or top of each page?

There is: at the top-right of the list there is a "<< Page X >>" where
the << and >> are links to the previous and next pages (absent when
not applicable). Adding a similar construct to the bottom of the list
may be worth looking in to.

Jacob F.
Andreas S. (Guest)
on 2005-11-16 21:15
j-merrill wrote:
> andreas wrote:
>> j-merrill wrote:
>>
>>> What's the story about getting to older threads?
>>
>> http://www.ruby-forum.com/forum/4?page=2
>
> Thanks.  Why not have a link to that (and the prev and next) and the
> bottom and/or top of each page?

There is a link.

> BTW, the anchor is working fine.  Thanks for this effort.
>
> Note that I am still getting the mails, because I can use "X1 Desktop
> Search" on them.  Have you considered using David B.'s "Ferret" to
> provide a search mechanism for the forum?

There already is a search mechanism, currently using simple SQL LIKE
matching. Other available search backends are MySql boolean search and
Odeum.
Andre P. (Guest)
on 2005-11-23 19:09
andreas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have set up a forum that mirrors the ruby-talk and rails mailing
> lists:
>
> http://www.ruby-forum.com/
>
> If you notice problems or have any suggestions, please send me a mail.
>
> Andreas

This is JUST FANTASTIC !

Apart from some small suggestions (concerning email/spam)
Please KISS and don't touch it ! :-)

Congrats,
Andre
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