Found this on free ebook site. # Addison Wesley The Ruby Way 2nd Edition Oct 2006 # learning-ruby # OReilly - Ruby In a Nutshell # OReilly Ruby Cookbook Jul 2006 # Programming Ruby - The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide # Ruby Cookbook (OReilly, 2006) # SYNGRESS-Ruby Developers Guide http://ebook.mazudi.com/?w=ruby
on 15.05.2008 04:35
on 15.05.2008 09:53
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Laurynn <surejaya@gmail.com> wrote: > Found this on free ebook site. > > # Addison Wesley The Ruby Way 2nd Edition Oct 2006 > # learning-ruby > # OReilly - Ruby In a Nutshell > # OReilly Ruby Cookbook Jul 2006 > # Programming Ruby - The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide > # Ruby Cookbook (OReilly, 2006) > # SYNGRESS-Ruby Developers Guide Most, if not all of these books are definitely not free. Any downloads for them are likely illegal. Besides, these myriad "free e-book" sites seem to be fakes built entirely to get people to increase their pagerank (and possibly ad revenue, if you think people click on ads at sites that annoy them). Les
on 15.05.2008 23:21
I use this one: www.pdfchm.com I don't have ethical problems likes others! If you wants buy it, go ahead, I don't have problems with that. 2008/5/15 Leslie Viljoen <leslieviljoen@gmail.com>:
on 15.05.2008 23:47
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Pablo Q. wrote: | I use this one: | | www.pdfchm.com | | I don't have ethical problems likes others! But probably legal problems. You know that you aren't anonymous on thy internet, do you? - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Parenthesise to avoid ambiguity. ~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgsrv4ACgkQbtAgaoJTgL8UqACfZwGVbbnqmSrOuhSdyw5lc57q tP8AoJQuBHV2LM+hxqoAkmQjadO8thjP =n7HO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 14:45
I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the infrastructure for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in different). 2008/5/15 Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@googlemail.com>:
on 16.05.2008 15:00
On May 16, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Pablo Q. wrote: > I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the > infrastructure > for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in > different). Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to economic growth in the region. Dave
on 16.05.2008 15:51
On May 16, 5:59 am, Dave Thomas <d...@pragprog.com> wrote: > > Dave I am hoping that every @$$hole that attempts to download (AKA STEAL) one of these PDF's gets a nice piece of malware, which is highly likely. Your integrity is your most valuable possession, and the best part is that no one can take it from you. To loose it, you must give it away. TW Scannell
on 16.05.2008 16:32
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Laurynn <surejaya@gmail.com> wrote: > Found this on free ebook site. There are so many great and truly free Ruby ebooks available, there's really no need to shaft the authors that have taken the time and effort to go through the paper publishing process. Examples: The Original Pickaxe: http://www.infoq.com/minibooks/ruby/ Mr. Neighborly's Humble Guide: http://www.infoq.com/minibooks/ruby/ Why's Poignant Guide: http://poignantguide.net/ruby/ -- Avdi Home: http://avdi.org Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com
on 16.05.2008 17:59
I know why you are so angry. http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd47b06e/200731143675492b Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think that I will have problem with malware stuffs! 2008/5/16 Ruby Freak <twscannell@gmail.com>:
on 16.05.2008 18:31
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Pablo Q. <paqs140482@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't have ethical problems likes others! Thank you for being so up-front with the fact that you cannot be trusted. It's so hard to know who you can trust these days; it's nice when someone just comes right out and announces in a public forum that they are unethical and should not be trusted. -- Avdi Home: http://avdi.org Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com
on 16.05.2008 18:39
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Pablo Q. wrote: | I know why you are so angry. | | http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd47b06e/200731143675492b | | Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think | that I will have problem with malware stuffs! Yeah, absolutely no rootkits available for Linux.. Oh, wait.. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Use the fundamental control flow constructs. ~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtuGEACgkQbtAgaoJTgL9D/gCfbci4jqCeMMcccE8ZCAlS6R5z vLAAmwXwxc8Muyv2n7QsoQ2gNBg+sQuk =s/Z1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 18:41
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dave Thomas wrote: | | On May 16, 2008, at 7:44 AM, Pablo Q. wrote: | |> I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the |> infrastructure |> for this king of persecution don't exist. (I know that in Germany in |> different). | | Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this | general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to | economic growth in the region. The entertainment industry is slowly but surely learning that lesson. EA, for example, is not publishing games in Brazil anymore. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com ~ - You know you've been hacking too long when... ...you're doing laundry, and you think: touch * <or> make clean -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtuJgACgkQbtAgaoJTgL+e5QCgoRGeO25z4dHaUchX/SmHeBZu f7AAnjXu2dU7BWFS3yJXS4Rp9rXDuGV7 =/Svv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 18:41
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Pablo Q. wrote: | I'm not in the "first world" (I'm from latino america), the infrastructure | for this king of persecution don't exist. Yet. Even China is tightening up on intellectual property. And *that* country is way more important than any Latin American country. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Rule of Open-Source Programming #1: Don't whine unless you are going to implement it yourself. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtuNYACgkQbtAgaoJTgL/2NQCffQWFI1lZS3eybEAf83hAQQa2 ujkAnjywSGLg9wdtkabk4YRgDByf7z4F =Dd4E -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 18:43
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Avdi Grimm wrote: | On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Laurynn <surejaya@gmail.com> wrote: |> Found this on free ebook site. | | There are so many great and truly free Ruby ebooks available, there's | really no need to shaft the authors that have taken the time and | effort to go through the paper publishing process. Actually, that is not what it is about (free vs. paid). It's, well, no notion of ethically correct, or even acceptable or understandable behavior. There is, in fact, no sense of guilt connected to copyright infringement. Not even in nations that should know better, and where infringement *is* prosecuted, like the US or Germany. Well, I have faith that karma will balance the equation. Always does. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com ~ I'm killing time while I wait for life to shower me with meaning and happiness. -- Calvin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtuZYACgkQbtAgaoJTgL/IqACfUEznqQB/LFhVDHWSpInubJmT ZgIAoI2AE/m6U0uPerNYqUkiaAWXb84j =nvjT -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 18:47
On May 16, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Phillip Gawlowski wrote: > | Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this > | general lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to > | economic growth in the region. > > The entertainment industry is slowly but surely learning that lesson. > EA, for example, is not publishing games in Brazil anymore. It hurts countries internally, too. Without effective property rights, it's very hard for people to raise capital (as you can't use assets as collateral). And without an efficient capital market, two things happen. First, economic progress is slowed dramatically, as no one wants to invest. Second, much of the economy moves underground, which in the long term builds crime and hinders mobility. de Soto's book is a fascinating read. Dave
on 16.05.2008 18:58
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dave Thomas wrote: | It hurts countries internally, too. Without effective property rights, | it's very hard for people to raise capital (as you can't use assets as | collateral). And without an efficient capital market, two things happen. | First, economic progress is slowed dramatically, as no one wants to | invest. Second, much of the economy moves underground, which in the long | term builds crime and hinders mobility. de Soto's book is a fascinating | read. Yep. And there is no easy way out of that vicious circle, either. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Youth is a period of missed opportunities without the glory of knowing what ~ was missed. ~ -- Cyril Connolly, "Journal and Memoir" 1983 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtvRwACgkQbtAgaoJTgL+/kQCfSG4wX8qxYrW2l7Bm/4VH3DHF HNgAn3TMBpaoTsMLUGRtJ80vAav4SAfU =It19 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 19:26
On May 16, 8:58 am, "Pablo Q." <paqs140...@gmail.com> wrote: > I know why you are so angry. > > http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd4... > > Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think > that I will have problem with malware stuffs! Pablo, It's amusing that the thread you referenced involves "Honest" members of Users Group receiving free books from the publisher in trade for providing reviews. I have no reason to be angry about that. You see, there are benefits to having integrity. Good luck to you.
on 16.05.2008 19:32
On May 16, 12:29 pm, Avdi Grimm <a...@avdi.org> wrote: > > Thank you for being so up-front with the fact that you cannot be > trusted. It's so hard to know who you can trust these days; it's nice > when someone just comes right out and announces in a public forum that > they are unethical and should not be trusted. But how do you *know* he can't be trusted? You're just taking his word for it.
on 16.05.2008 19:40
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karl von Laudermann wrote: | On May 16, 12:29 pm, Avdi Grimm <a...@avdi.org> wrote: |> Thank you for being so up-front with the fact that you cannot be |> trusted. It's so hard to know who you can trust these days; it's nice |> when someone just comes right out and announces in a public forum that |> they are unethical and should not be trusted. | | But how do you *know* he can't be trusted? You're just taking his word | for it. "Me, I'm dishonest, and you can always trust a dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest men you have to worry about, because you never know when they're going to do something incredibly stupid." - - /Captain/ Jack Sparrow - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com ~ Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - -- Calvin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtxvsACgkQbtAgaoJTgL8ZUACfVyyRJLp3UXNm96BmENdwXLw8 J64An1QVv0QjwkIAveiI0LbLPSj/MFGP =N0Mj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 19:43
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 16, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Karl von Laudermann wrote: > for it. > Oh, the "Dark Star"-Argument. For true John Carpenter-Fanboys only. Regards, Florian Gilcher -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkgtx6cACgkQJA/zY0IIRZbmAgCeKYZN9m7fZEN1pnFmhLeneiyE kc8AoJWR8eyxcxBqdPQ+Jo1/WEU+jJcu =oyq6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 19:51
Ruby Freak wrote: > On May 16, 8:58 am, "Pablo Q." <paqs140...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I know why you are so angry. >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/cowpu/browse_thread/thread/e0ed5165cd4... >> >> Go ahead I say, buy whatever you wants. I 'm a linux user, so I don't think >> that I will have problem with malware stuffs! > > > Pablo, > It's amusing that the thread you referenced involves "Honest" members > of Users Group receiving free books from the publisher in trade for > providing reviews. I have no reason to be angry about that. > You see, there are benefits to having integrity. > > Good luck to you. You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is "integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge as if it was a merchandise and not a right. The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and coffee? Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor because they are incompetent and lazy? Tell you what, you wake up from your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no?
on 16.05.2008 20:16
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As23 Mega wrote: | | You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is | "integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with knowledge | as if it was a merchandise and not a right. It *is* a merchandise. TANSTAFL. People invested their time and effort in it, and that deserves compensation. | The internet offers a voice and power to those who can't afford | capitalist imposed quotas. Or do you feel that only US and Europe and | entitled to knowledge because they cas easily throw away X amount of | dollars while other people base their economy working in factories for | you to wear snickers and cool t-shirts and eat tropical fruits and | coffee? Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it: Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one. You know, that's what is called 'integrity'. 'Honor'. 'Fairness'. Oh, and I'm offering you the once in a lifetime chance of putting your money where your mouth is: Send me a cheque over all your money, so I can attain the standard of living I feel entitled to. Deal? (What, you think the poor are only limited to Africa and Latin America? I can't afford to buy all the books I want, either. Yet I am not defrauding others of their work. Funny how that works.) | Maybe you are one of those that just KNOWS that the poor are poor | because they are incompetent and lazy? Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea.. The leaders creating the poverty sure seem incompetent. | Tell you what, you wake up from | your comfortable living and then judge others in not so comfortable | situations for trying to learn by downloading a goddamn book, ok? no? Tell you what: Visit an Econ 101 course, and please, please read The Capital, too, not just the Communist Manifesto, ok? no? Also: There are absolutely free, no strings attached alternatives to defrauding people like Dave Thomas, or Matz, or Peter Cooper, which are even regularly advertised on this very mailing list. Say, do you defraud the plumber, too who fixes your sink? Your electrician? The mechanic fixing your car? The bus driver? The taxi driver? Before you start trolling, at least do a *little* research. This is insulting to the list's members. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com ~ I imagine bugs and girls have a dim perception that nature played a cruel trick on them, but they lack the intelligence to really comprehend the magnitude of it. -- Calvin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgtzy0ACgkQbtAgaoJTgL/U6wCglSZjxMyPnqSV5RfANQg74Anw fLUAnj7ttlBU4NmsWPOCti2OpDrAJpxf =TQK2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 16.05.2008 20:21
Please folks. This is Ruby Talk. Can we get back to Ruby now? James Edward Gray II
on 16.05.2008 20:37
On May 16, 2008, at 12:51 PM, As23 Mega wrote: > You keep pandering to the best corporate insterests, that sure is > "integrity". Keep making tha fat cats fatter when dealing with > knowledge > as if it was a merchandise and not a right. Knowledge is not merchandise. When you buy a book, you're paying the author for his or her time organizing that knowledge for you—you're paying for a service. If you don't want to pay for that service, you're free to use the available knowledge to learn just the same way the original author did. You can read the source code, write the thousands of lines of code, read the web, email experts, put stuff out for review, and so on. For most people, the money spent on a book repays the opportunity cost of the time they'd otherwise spent gathering, filtering and organizing the knowledge for themselves. If that equation doesn't work in particular circumstances, then the source knowledge is still there. But stealing the book is not defeating a capitalist machine. It's simply a disincentive for that author to put the effort in to creating another book. Dave
on 16.05.2008 20:41
> Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it: > Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one. Oh man, now this is just sad! To you a book is mere merchandise, to millions of people is knowledge, power, opportunity. A big compendium of wisdom that is to be valued and cherish, above the mighty (haha!) dollar and those who worship it. A Ferrari? Why the hell would somebody want to support a Ferrari that is the equivalent of thousands of invaluable books! Not all authors are money grabbing whores, some actually care that their knowledge is spread >Before you start trolling, at least do a *little* research. This is >insulting to the list's members Yeah, clearly I'm the one who is deluded here. Still despite you, I choose to believe in mankind. Oh and I did get economy lessons, I actually passed 101 with 100%, not that it matters though, because clearly not everybody learns, there's more to the real world than a classroom and a book you know. You better stick to technical questions my Kapitalist-Jugend.
on 16.05.2008 20:44
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Laurynn wrote: | Found this on free ebook site. | | # Addison Wesley The Ruby Way 2nd Edition Oct 2006 | # learning-ruby | # OReilly - Ruby In a Nutshell | # OReilly Ruby Cookbook Jul 2006 | # Programming Ruby - The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide | # Ruby Cookbook (OReilly, 2006) | # SYNGRESS-Ruby Developers Guide | | http://ebook.mazudi.com/?w=ruby Fun fact: "You shall not, shall not agree to, and shall not authorize or encourage any third party to: (i) use the Service to upload, transmit or otherwise distribute any content that is unlawful, defamatory, harassing, abusive, fraudulent, obscene, contains viruses, or is otherwise objectionable as reasonably determined by Google; (ii) upload, transmit or otherwise distribute content that infringes upon another party's intellectual property rights or other proprietary, contractual or fiduciary rights or obligations; (iii) prevent others from using the Service; (iv) use the Service for any fraudulent or inappropriate purpose; or (v) act in any way that violates the Program Policies, as may be revised from time to time." Google Mail's Terms of Service. I took the liberty of reporting this email to Google. That being said, I bow out of this discussion. - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Every person who has mastered a profession is a skeptic concerning it. ~ -- George Bernard Shaw -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkgt1cEACgkQbtAgaoJTgL836QCdEwb7Eh60ikUXjccaupX6jI0V dBUAnjExC6buMNSQtwG0CtU2LsPJNiD4 =BPZn -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 22.05.2008 15:19
Pablo The best option is to get the free books that are available. That way everybody benefits. Those "free versions" are insulting to the authors, since they do not get paid at all. Hey, ask nicely and somebody might send you a free used copy. Rest of the world, An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much more in Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on monthly minimum wages. A $45 book at $7 per hour means roughly 6.5 hours. Monthly minimum wage in Peru amounts to $179, which amounts 25% of a monthly minimum wage. Do you see the disparity, and the lack of incentives for people in Peru to get the book through Amazon? So, educate the user and help them find legal sources, instead of accusing them of thieving. Best regards, Camilo
on 22.05.2008 17:38
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Camilo <camilor@gmail.com> wrote: > Rest of the world, > An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much more in > Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on monthly minimum > wages. I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in different markets. Is this not the case? -- Avdi Home: http://avdi.org Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com
on 22.05.2008 18:01
On Thursday 22 May 2008, Avdi Grimm wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Camilo <camilor@gmail.com> wrote: > > Rest of the world, > > An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much > > more in Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on > > monthly minimum wages. > > I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in > different markets. Is this not the case? That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account. Michael
on 22.05.2008 18:11
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Michael Schuerig <michael@schuerig.de> wrote: > That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers > have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in > general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often > find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from > amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account. I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third world. -- Avdi Home: http://avdi.org Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com
on 22.05.2008 18:20
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schuerig wrote: | On Thursday 22 May 2008, Avdi Grimm wrote: |> On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Camilo <camilor@gmail.com> wrote: |>> Rest of the world, |>> An O'Reilly book costing $45 in the USA costs significantly much |>> more in Peru; instead of making a straight conversion, think on |>> monthly minimum wages. |> I was under the impression that publishers priced differently in |> different markets. Is this not the case? | | That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers | have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in | general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often | find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from | amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account. This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung. For our international friends: Books are a cultural good, and thus not something you should leave to the market forces, which also means a lower VAT of 7% instead of 19%. Therefore, books are priced according to page count and type of binding (hardcovers can be more expensive than softcovers, which in turn can be more expensive than pocketbooks). Which means that highly successful books like by Stephen King are as expensive (or cheap) as the less successful books (like Wolfgang Holbein). (N.B.: The German book market is thriving, and new talent, German as well as international, gets published, too.) However: This only counts for books produced and sold in Germany, and that aren't damaged (this leads to funny situations, where books get priced cheaper that only have a black marker going across the pages on the outside, say the bottom, and which are otherwise fine). Imported books can be priced as the retailer likes, as they aren't covered by the Buchpreisbindung. This makes it unattractive to go to the length of translating a technical book (most of us developers can speak English anyhow, if only for professional reasons) and printing a German version of it. This also means, that the books have to be imported at a cost, and that, in turn, increases the price for the end-consumer. And yes, especially with the US Dollar being as weak as it is, importing a book from the US is cheaper (especially if you manage to stay below the customs duty threshold of 5 Euros: Then it is only a trip to customs to pick up the books). Also, Tyler Cowen touched on this subject in a recent blog post: <http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html> - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com Use recursive procedures for recursively-defined data structures. ~ - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg1nOoACgkQbtAgaoJTgL9S6wCfZ8NrDGlWLSHrNf96qUxfkQIW qrcAn20UdaopqyKptFI0qtQn3ndVyuFE =iBzV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 22.05.2008 18:22
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Avdi Grimm wrote: | I wouldn't expect the prices to be reduced for an advanced Western | nation like Germany. I'm curious about the pricing in the third | world. I noted this in my other email, but you might miss that, so: <http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/05/why-are-books-s.html> - -- Phillip Gawlowski Twitter: twitter.com/cynicalryan Blog: http://justarubyist.blogspot.com 10 years old is a good age to get stuck at. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg1nTYACgkQbtAgaoJTgL/URQCffSDf//33RijvvmQ5up8Ol6oR 8VQAoIP6nK/P6pJlNTg5EPEaM+mowcou =2cz8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
on 22.05.2008 20:48
On Thursday 22 May 2008, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:
> This may be an artifact of the German Buchpreisbindung.
As you explain yourself, it does not apply to non-german books.
Michael
on 30.05.2008 07:17
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Phillip Gawlowski > Bullshit. Everybody is free to buy the goods. If they can't afford it: > Tough luck. I can't afford a Ferrari, yet I'm not stealing one. > The problem is that here in Peru and most of South America, almost nobody can spend 45$ on a book and education really sucks. So I guess you suggest that people should just keep there 'integrity'. 'Honor' and 'Fairness' by not downloading books and stay ignorant? > Zimbabwe, Cuba, North Korea.. The leaders creating the poverty sure seem incompetent. Ok so because leaders are incompetent I should just wait for democracy to come one day and stay ignorant in the meantime? That's weird.
on 30.05.2008 16:13
Michael Schuerig wrote: > That may be true for academic textbooks where several publishers > have "international" (read: non-US) editions. For technical books in > general this doesn't appear to be true. I live in Germany and often > find that it is cheaper to order books from amazon.com than from > amazon.de, even taking customs duty into account. When I was in India last year I picked up a copy of _Design Patterns_ that was 640rp (about 16USD). The same book (not the same quality of paper) is 99USD. The bookstores there were loaded with new, legal printings of technical books, in English, but are marked as "LPE" (Low Price Edition). The book says: "This edition is manufactured in India and is authorized for sale only in India, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lank and the Maldives."
on 30.05.2008 16:19
On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 12:27 +0900, Patrick Aljord wrote: > Ok so because leaders are incompetent I should just wait for democracy > to come one day and stay ignorant in the meantime? That's weird. You are dealing with people, Patrick, who build up a huge head of righteous indignation while forgetting that the USA, at the turn of the 20th century, didn't respect foreign copyright. "Intellectual property protection" only started becoming an issue in the USA when they had some worth protecting. Now they don't want any other countries to use the same techniques they did to bootstrap. But really, copyright is off-topic I would suspect. We should probably continue this discussion off-list.
on 30.05.2008 16:25
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 8:18 AM, Camilo <camilor@gmail.com> wrote: > Pablo > The best option is to get the free books that are available. That way > everybody benefits. Those "free versions" are insulting to the authors, > since they do not get paid at all. Hey, ask nicely and somebody might send > you a free used copy. > Camillo, There is no used copy of ruby (or any other o'reilly book) books in Peru. The only way would be to buy a used version on Amazon or Ebay. Unfortunately, sending it to Peru would cost at least 50$ + the cost of the used book. Not very interesting. As for finding somebody willing to send you a free copy (and waste 50$ for you), good luck about that.
on 30.05.2008 16:26
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote: > > Indeed. According to the Peruvian economist Hernando de Soto, this general > lack of property rights is one of the main limitations to economic growth in > the region. > The non respect of copyrights is not what's limiting Latin America growth, believe me (or google for it) they have way worse problems. I know that the US is trying to push for DMCA-like and software patents to other Latin American countries though the TLC and NAFTA but those won't help at all if not make the situation worse.
on 30.05.2008 16:27
Patrick Aljord wrote: > There is no used copy of ruby (or any other o'reilly book) books in > Peru. The only way would be to buy a used version on Amazon or Ebay. > Unfortunately, sending it to Peru would cost at least 50$ + the cost > of the used book. Not very interesting. As for finding somebody > willing to send you a free copy (and waste 50$ for you), good luck > about that. > Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat rate envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger items cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate. By the way, that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious about the shipping costs go to usps.com and select shipping. As a person that has spent over $40 shipping a computer to Australia, before the costs went through the ceiling, I know there are those who will send items to other countries at their expense. I don't know if there is anyone in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in mind.
on 30.05.2008 17:02
On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Michael W. Ryder > Where are you getting your $50 figure? Sending a priority mail flat rate > envelope is about $13 for an item weighing up to 4 pounds. Larger items > cost more of course, but a lot of books should fit in that rate. By the way, > that rate is about the same we pay . If you are curious about the shipping > costs go to usps.com and select shipping. I doubt 7 ruby books enters in an envelope but anyway... > I don't know if there is anyone > in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in > mind. > Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking :)
on 30.05.2008 17:18
Patrick Aljord wrote: >> in this group that would do this in this case but it is something to keep in >> mind. >> > > Get real, thousands if not millions of devs need those books, do you > think it would be possible to find thousands or millions of westerners > to send used copy for free? Why should we get out of our way anyway to > respect US copyright laws when it's obvious that the US doesn't give a > damn about other countries laws... Anyway this is off topic so I'll > stop here for this thread, let's get back to ruby hacking :) > Its this attitude that prevents me and probably others from helping. No, we can't send everyone in the world that would like a free book a copy of our used ones, but that doesn't stop us from helping when we can. Your post reminds me of a news article I just read about Myanmar. They are complaining that they aren't receiving enough "free money" for the cyclone victims after they told the world to leave them alone.
on 30.05.2008 17:32
On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Avdi Grimm <avdi@avdi.org> wrote: > Avdi > > Home: http://avdi.org > Developer Blog: http://avdi.org/devblog/ > Twitter: http://twitter.com/avdi > Journal: http://avdi.livejournal.com > > True here in India,for some books, although they may be published sometimes a year or more later. Today I just purchased "The Ruby Programming language" by D.Flanagan and Matz for Indian Rs.400( $10 ) . This book is priced more than $26 at Amazon.com. This book can legally be sold only in the Indian Subcontinent and some countries in African Continent. Prasad
on 30.05.2008 19:32
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Darryl L. Pierce <mcpierce@gmail.com> wrote: > 99USD. The bookstores there were loaded with new, legal printings of > technical books, in English, but are marked as "LPE" (Low Price Edition). > The book says: > > "This edition is manufactured in India and is authorized for sale only in > India, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lank and the Maldives." I really appreciate this, and other ways of getting the same books cheaper. I buy a lot of books and I think it is relatively expensive in Africa (but I suppose mostly due to transport costs). Cheaper (non-DRM) PDF versions and 2nd-hand books (abebooks.com) are a real treat for me. Les