Has anyone made any progress with creating a YAML processor for .NET? I know that some people made some noise about it last Autumn. Since there hasn't been any more info I thought I would take it on and set up an open source project for it (http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net/). It uses the Gnu Lesser Public License, which should be OK for use in IronRuby, etc. Let me know if you are already doing something similar or would like to participate. Pete
on 01.02.2008 09:10
on 01.02.2008 10:22
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 01:07:21 -0700, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: > Has anyone made any progress with creating a YAML processor for .NET? If not mistaken, we** decided to forego YAML all together and advance the state-of-the-Ruby-art by by using XML instead. Anyone care to clarify? ** By "we" what I mean is that I followed-up[1] Charlie's suggested project name with a "suggestion" to use XML instead, and no one responded. Using the generalized rule of "No response is an automatic check in the 'yes' column" and given that it's been a few weeks since that thread came into existence, I can only assume that yes, in fact, XML is now the defacto replacement for YAML. Of course, I could be wrong. ;-) [1] http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/ironruby-core/2008-January/000611.html -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 10:25
Right :-) Now all we need to do is get the Rails guys to forego YAML too and we are sorted!
on 01.02.2008 10:28
hi Pete! There already is a .NET YAML implementation under Gnu Lesser Public License on sourceforge.net -> http://yaml-net-parser.sourceforge.net/. I do not know in what state it is, but you can take a look. regards, Slavo. On Feb 1, 2008 9:07 AM, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com>
on 01.02.2008 10:29
> If not mistaken, we** decided to forego YAML all together and > advance the state-of-the-Ruby-art by by using XML instead. If IronRuby is going to eventually run rails, you'll need YAML, not only for the small amount of configuration, but also for stuff like HAML and SAS, serialisation (Pstore) and the test suite. I would suggest that it would be a good idea to implement it. Besides, what harm is there in implementing it? ---------------------------------------------- Myles Eftos Mobile: +61-409-293-183 MadPilot Productions URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au Phone: +618-9467-7651 Fax: +618-9467-6289 Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles! http://www.88miles.net
on 01.02.2008 10:56
Yep I did take a look at that project. It is only partially complete and doesn't show any signs of further development; it was written by some CompSci students as a project for their course and they are now busy with other stuff. They probably weren't allowed to use the reference implementations for their work so their implementation is rather different from the standard model and I also had some concerns about their use of exceptions in the everyday logic. So I thought it best to start from scratch and try to stick more closely, algorithmically, to the PyYaml reference. What do people think? I don't expect to do all the implementation myself so would appreciate if anyone else wanted to get involved. Pete From: ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Slavo Furman Sent: Friday,01 February 01, 2008 09:08 To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] YAML for .NET hi Pete! There already is a .NET YAML implementation under Gnu Lesser Public License on sourceforge.net -> http://yaml-net-parser.sourceforge.net/. I do not know in what state it is, but you can take a look. regards, Slavo. On Feb 1, 2008 9:07 AM, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: Has anyone made any progress with creating a YAML processor for .NET? I know that some people made some noise about it last Autumn. Since there hasn't been any more info I thought I would take it on and set up an open source project for it (http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net/). It uses the Gnu Lesser Public License, which should be OK for use in IronRuby, etc. Let me know if you are already doing something similar or would like to participate. Pete
on 01.02.2008 11:13
Can we look at https://jvyaml.dev.java.net/ (which is a port from http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML)? As a side note, what does the license say about basing the implementation of other projects code? ---------------------------------------------- Myles Eftos Mobile: +61-409-293-183 MadPilot Productions URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au <http://www.madpilot.com.au/> Phone: +618-9467-7651 Fax: +618-9467-6289 Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles! http://www.88miles.net <http://www.88miles.net/> _____ From: ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Peter Bacon Darwin Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 18:47 To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] YAML for .NET Yep I did take a look at that project. It is only partially complete and doesn't show any signs of further development; it was written by some CompSci students as a project for their course and they are now busy with other stuff. They probably weren't allowed to use the reference implementations for their work so their implementation is rather different from the standard model and I also had some concerns about their use of exceptions in the everyday logic. So I thought it best to start from scratch and try to stick more closely, algorithmically, to the PyYaml reference. What do people think? I don't expect to do all the implementation myself so would appreciate if anyone else wanted to get involved. Pete From: ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org [mailto:ironruby-core-bounces@rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of Slavo Furman Sent: Friday,01 February 01, 2008 09:08 To: ironruby-core@rubyforge.org Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] YAML for .NET hi Pete! There already is a .NET YAML implementation under Gnu Lesser Public License on sourceforge.net -> http://yaml-net-parser.sourceforge.net/. I do not know in what state it is, but you can take a look. regards, Slavo. On Feb 1, 2008 9:07 AM, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: Has anyone made any progress with creating a YAML processor for .NET? I know that some people made some noise about it last Autumn. Since there hasn't been any more info I thought I would take it on and set up an open source project for it (http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net/). It uses the Gnu Lesser Public License, which should be OK for use in IronRuby, etc. Let me know if you are already doing something similar or would like to participate. Pete
on 01.02.2008 11:15
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:24:30 -0700, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: > Now all we need to do is get the Rails guys to forego YAML too and > we are sorted! That shouldn't be a problem: I hear DHH has a secret obsession with XML and is just dieing for a reason to come out of the closet. ;-) -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 11:22
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:10:43 -0700, Myles Eftos <myles@madpilot.com.au> wrote: > As a side note, what does the license say about basing the > implementation of other projects code? I think this conversation has already come up. /me is looking for the link to the archived thread. -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 11:28
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:28:11 -0700, Myles Eftos <myles@madpilot.com.au> wrote: > Besides, what harm is there in implementing it? I was kidding. YAML gets the job done and in most cases it's easier to read *ESPECIALLY* as it relates to configuration files. I just like to poke fun at YAML from time-to-time due to it's generalized roots stemming from XML-haters from yesteryear. -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 11:29
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:18:55 -0700, M. David Peterson <m.david@xmlhacker.com> wrote: > /me is looking for the link to the archived thread. Thread starts @ http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/ironruby-core/2007-September/000039.html -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 11:31
> I was kidding. YAML gets the job done and in most cases it's > easier to read *ESPECIALLY* as it relates to configuration > files. I just like to poke fun at YAML from time-to-time due > to it's generalized roots stemming from XML-haters from yesteryear. Heh, fair enough :) ---------------------------------------------- Myles Eftos Mobile: +61-409-293-183 MadPilot Productions URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au Phone: +618-9467-7651 Fax: +618-9467-6289 Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles! http://www.88miles.net
on 01.02.2008 11:42
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:23:56 -0700, M. David Peterson <m.david@xmlhacker.com> wrote: > Thread starts @ > http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/ironruby-core/2007-September/000039.html Actually, reading back through that thread I am realizing now that it might be worth considering writing the YAML parser in F# which already has full support for lex/yacc as part of the core distribution. +, F# is wicked fast. http://research.microsoft.com/fsharp/fsharp.aspx I would also take a look @, http://blogs.msdn.com/dsyme/archive/2007/09/14/jason-hogg-implements-the-secpal-for-simplified-english-grammar-in-f.aspx ... and ... http://blogs.msdn.com/dsyme/archive/2008/01/05/the-fparsec-library-by-stephan-tolksdorf.aspx ... both of which provide good examples of writing parsers in F#. -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 11:54
> Actually, reading back through that thread I am realizing now > that it might be worth considering writing the YAML parser in > F# which already has full support for lex/yacc as part of the > core distribution. +, F# is wicked fast. Hey, if that would work, then cool. In regards to the license, from that thread you posted: "We have an issue here that we want to drive through legal, which is releasing IronRuby under multiple licenses. This shouldn't be a problem, but it is an issue if we are going to try and package IronRuby for release ourselves (which we should do). Like a lot of things that we do around here, it's always simpler if we could take one step at a time. I suspect that MsPL + MIT as a start would be nice. MsPL + CPL would be fine too. But MsPL + GPL + LGPL would be a much harder sell." And from the source files from jvYamlb: /***** BEGIN LICENSE BLOCK ***** * Version: CPL 1.0/GPL 2.0/LGPL 2.1 * * The contents of this file are subject to the Common Public * License Version 1.0 (the "License"); you may not use this file * except in compliance with the License. You may obtain a copy of * the License at http://www.eclipse.org/legal/cpl-v10.html * * Software distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS * IS" basis, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or * implied. See the License for the specific language governing * rights and limitations under the License. * * Copyright (C) 2007 Ola Bini <ola@ologix.com> * * Alternatively, the contents of this file may be used under the terms of * either of the GNU General Public License Version 2 or later (the "GPL"), * or the GNU Lesser General Public License Version 2.1 or later (the "LGPL"), * in which case the provisions of the GPL or the LGPL are applicable instead * of those above. If you wish to allow use of your version of this file only * under the terms of either the GPL or the LGPL, and not to allow others to * use your version of this file under the terms of the CPL, indicate your * decision by deleting the provisions above and replace them with the notice * and other provisions required by the GPL or the LGPL. If you do not delete * the provisions above, a recipient may use your version of this file under * the terms of any one of the CPL, the GPL or the LGPL. ***** END LICENSE BLOCK *****/ So does that mean it can be release under JUST the CPL? Because in that case, we should be sweet? ---------------------------------------------- Myles Eftos Mobile: +61-409-293-183 MadPilot Productions URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au Phone: +618-9467-7651 Fax: +618-9467-6289 Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles! http://www.88miles.net
on 01.02.2008 12:11
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:53:07 -0700, Myles Eftos <myles@madpilot.com.au> wrote: > So does that mean it can be release under JUST the CPL? It seems to me that somewhere buried in that thread is the answer, and I believe that answer is yes. But it's obviously best to clarify. Also, while a direct port of Java to C# (or from Java to F#) is obviously best, to get things up and running quickly I would consider using IKVM.NET to compile a .NET accessible assembly directly from the jar. -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 13:22
I knew there was a reason I bought that F# book last year. Could be a goer. There is already a Haskell YAML implementation that takes a similar approach: http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/YamlReference. Perhaps this could provide guidance, although it is released under the LGPL. Pete > Actually, reading back through that thread I am realizing now that it > might be worth considering writing the YAML parser in F# which already has
on 01.02.2008 13:46
The PyYaml processor is MIT licensed and the implantation is fairly straightforward to follow. I have modified the google Yaml.NET project to be MIT licensed too. It appears from John Lam's posts last September that MS permissive + MIT would be acceptable. In the meantime, if no one else objects I will begin to port PyYaml to C#; starting with the Parsing and Presenting processes. The other layers, in particular Construction, will need more thought as to how they will integrate with .NET generally and IronRuby specifically. As far as F# goes, I think this is very interesting but I am not up to speed with the language to say how much better it would be than a straight OO port. I think it would be good to get a C# port up and running and then look at F# and how it could fit in/replace bits. There are of course Silverlight issues - do the F# libraries run on it? Again let me know if you think I should stop and do something else or if you want to get involved. Pete
on 01.02.2008 13:55
Interesting as Harry Pierson gave a talk at Lang.net about using F# to write a parser. http://www.devhawk.net and looking through my copy of expert f# there is a chapter on writing parsers and lexers. Douglas -------------------------------------------------- From: "M. David Peterson" <m.david@xmlhacker.com> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 4:42 AM To: "M. David Peterson" <m.david@xmlhacker.com>; <ironruby-core@rubyforge.org> Subject: Re: [Ironruby-core] YAML for .NET
on 01.02.2008 13:57
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:38:07 -0700, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: > The PyYaml processor is MIT licensed and the implantation is fairly > straightforward to follow. I have modified the google Yaml.NET project > to > be MIT licensed too. It appears from John Lam's posts last September > that > MS permissive + MIT would be acceptable. Right on. Will PyYaml run via IronPython? If yes, then why not just place focus on using PyYaml directly via the DLR? > I think it would be good to get a C# port up and running and then > look at F# and how it could fit in/replace bits. Good idea. For runtime reference I've created an IKVM'd version of JRuby > http://mdavid.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/jruby/. You can reference the code in any C# source file via adding reference to the jruby.dll file contained in the above directory and then adding whichever from the following list you might need, using org.jvyamlb; using org.jvyamlb.events; using org.jvyamlb.nodes; using org.jvyamlb.tokens; using org.jvyamlb.utils; > There are of course > Silverlight issues - do the F# libraries run on it? I believe so, yes > http://strangelights.com/blog/archive/2007/05/25/1584.aspx > Again let me know if you think I should stop and do something else or if > you > want to get involved. Looks like you're on the right track to me :-) -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 13:59
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:48:37 -0700, drh <drhent@hotmail.com> wrote: > Interesting as Harry Pierson gave a talk at Lang.net about using F# to > write a parser. > http://www.devhawk.net Nice find! Thanks for the link! -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 14:13
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:56:54 -0700, M. David Peterson <m.david@xmlhacker.com> wrote: > Good idea. For runtime reference I've created an IKVM'd version of JRuby >> http://mdavid.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/jruby/. Forgot to add the IVKM.* dependencies to the above directory. That's now fixed. -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 15:42
Peter Bacon Darwin: > Again let me know if you think I should stop and do something else or > if you want to get involved. John Messerly has been working in his spare time on porting Ola's JvYAML parser to .NET and he's made quite a lot of progress already. It's probably the best direct port that is out there. That said, we're running into problems with our MutableString implementation that we have to address first since the next major sets of things that we're looking to get working are Regex and YAML. If you're looking for things to work on, porting JRuby's Regex engine would be awesome ... we're meeting today to hash out some details about our string implementation and I'll post later on how we're proceeding with that. Thanks! -John
on 01.02.2008 16:32
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 07:41:34 -0700, John Lam (DLR) <jflam@microsoft.com> wrote: > John Messerly has been working in his spare time on porting Ola's JvYAML > parser to .NET and he's made quite a lot of progress already. It's > probably the best direct port that is out there. So I was about to ask the following: "Does a list exist somewhere, preferably on a wiki (though handwritten on a napkin would work for the time being ;-), that provides a simple TODO:, TODONE:, and TODONOTTOUCHTHISSPACE: list of project pieces?" And then I decided "Before you make a fool of yourself, look on the wiki!" Apparently yes :D, Core: http://ironruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Core StdLib: http://ironruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?StdLib I wonder if it wouldn't be such a bad idea to append to the mailing list signature something like, "Want to contribute? Look @ http://ironruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Core and http://ironruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?StdLib to get some ideas." ... or something to that effect? If nothing else, it would advertise the fact that these pages exists, and while it's never going to be 100% up-to-date, something is better than nothing. Thoughts? -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 17:08
And of course to update the wiki - way down at the bottom of the StdLib page is a lonely little Yaml? with no name attached. John M would you like to open source your Yaml port or stick it into the project I created? I think there are lots of .NET users out there who are not going to use Ruby or Python but might benefit from a decent Yaml processor. I will probably dump what I have done so far into the SVN at http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net for the time being and see what happens. Pete
on 01.02.2008 17:15
Peter Bacon Darwin: > And of course to update the wiki - way down at the bottom of the StdLib > page is a lonely little Yaml? with no name attached. Yikes. Will fix that. > John M would you like to open source your Yaml port or stick it into > the project I created? I think there are lots of .NET users out there > who are not going to use Ruby or Python but might benefit from a decent > Yaml processor. This makes sense if when we refactor the parser from the API. I suspect it's probably factored that way in JvYAML today, but jomes knows for sure. > I will probably dump what I have done so far into the SVN at > http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net for the time being and see what > happens. Cool. Thanks! BTW, do you want to sign up for porting the JRuby regex engine (which is itself a port of the Oniguruma engine). -John
on 01.02.2008 17:55
Source uploaded => http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net/source/browse
on 01.02.2008 18:16
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:55:03 -0700, Peter Bacon Darwin <bacondarwin@googlemail.com> wrote: > Source uploaded => http://code.google.com/p/yaml-dot-net/source/browse When did Google Code at the source viewer? -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 01.02.2008 18:23
Sorry to be so late to the YAML party. I started working on a port of JvYAML to C# last fall, but the absence of a byte-based MutableString makes it very hard to get it right. I eventually made my own MutableString as a placeholder, but there are still alot of holes and issues and bugs and issues with the code I ended up with. I'm excited to hear that John M is working on a port. How can I best help? ~Mike
on 03.02.2008 04:02
2008/2/1, M. David Peterson <m.david@xmlhacker.com>: > Right on. Will PyYaml run via IronPython? If yes, then why not just place > focus on using PyYaml directly via the DLR? 1. Will PyYaml run via IronPython? Yes. 2. If yes, why not focus on using PyYaml? I believe this is a separate question from having a good YAML parser on .NET.
on 03.02.2008 11:10
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:02:08 -0700, Sanghyeon Seo <sanxiyn@gmail.com> wrote: > 1. Will PyYaml run via IronPython? > Yes. Nice! > 2. If yes, why not focus on using PyYaml? > I believe this is a separate question from having a good YAML parser on > .NET. By "on .NET" I assume you are referring to a good YAML parser that is available to more than just Iron* languages? -- /M:D M. David Peterson Co-Founder & Chief Architect, 3rd&Urban, LLC Email: m.david@3rdandUrban.com | m.david@amp.fm Mobile: (206) 418-9027 http://3rdandUrban.com | http://amp.fm | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354
on 03.02.2008 16:38
IronRuby's YAML library needs to more than just be a YAML lib available to .NET. It needs to match the API that the Ruby lib implemented with Syck has. It has a particular API, which is why Ola wrote RbYAML in the first place. We could use RbYAML (which is written entirely in Ruby) for the yaml lib in IronRuby, but the JRuby guys found that the performance wasn't there. YAML is used in lots of apps, and having it be an order of magnitude slower on one platform vs. the other isn't good. So Ola wrote JvYAML, which follows the Syck API but is written in Java. That's the port I started on, and that's what John M is currently working on. I understand there are other YAML libs out there. Personally, I'd love to experiment with F# to get one written. But unless they follow Syck then they won't match what Ruby already has. I know there was an effort at a university somewhere to write a C# port of Syck, but I don't think it was ever released. And I seem to remember the JRuby guys saying that it was simpler to write it in Java than port Syck. Also, I seem to recall Syck isn't going to be worked on anymore.
on 06.02.2008 06:21
I had started working on porting JvYaml to c#. It is really rough, currently exporting to Yaml is working, I didn't get a chance to start on the other direction though. I don't know if it's of any value, but I would be more than happy to contribute what I got working.