On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:59 PM, Hal F. wrote:
That’s one reason I want assistance in prioritizing things. In
addition,
some of these I know little about, and will have to learn within the
next ninety days or so, or just skip them.
Can you use the community? Together we know a fair amount. 
James Edward G. II
On Dec 15, 2005, at 15:17, Doug H wrote:
I’d recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using
ruby to
develop applications, not to learn programming for programming’s
sake.
I agree with the other poster about the expectations the title
creates. I readed the book and was useful for me because i was
learning, practical issues are addressed, and you are exposed to
idiomatic Ruby. But I would expect it to evolve to explain “The Ruby
Way” of programming, so my vote goes there.
Explaining libraries and toolkits is certainly useful, but a topic
for a different book in my opinion.
– fxn
I’d recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop applications, not to learn programming for programming’s
sake.
Phil T. wrote:
I especially like chapter 5 (OOP and Dynamicity in Ruby) in the current
edition of TRW. I hope that perhaps a similar chapter on metaprogramming can
be added.
I also especially like chapter 5. Definitely a chapter on
metaprogramming! I like the idea of advanced topics especially those
things are easily done in a dynamically typed language and difficult in
staticly typed languages. But I like the library coverage as well.
Write both and I’ll buy both : ) If it’s available in early access,
I’ll buy that too!
Willing to put my money where my mouth is,
Gary Blomquist
[email protected] wrote:
“100 pages deleted”: does this mean Rb vs. perl/python sections are
expendable? I can understand, these entail a lot of research, &
recently there’s been an explosion of R vs. p/p/java/smalltalk/lisp
blogs which can be collected on ‘Ruby eye for python guy’ or some
wiki.
The part of Way r.1 that’s most valuable to me today is the “Things to
remember” list on pages 45+
Doug H wrote:
I’d recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop applications, not to learn programming for programming’s
sake.
Coding applications in Ruby without taking full advantage of what makes
Ruby R. is like walking up a hill backwards. You’ll get where you
want to go, but it could be so much nicer.
A guide to libraries would be handy, but indeed many are ephemeral or in
flux, and learning a set of distinct APIs for one thing or another is no
substitute for a proper understanding of Ruby itself.
It’s the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
Ruby programmer.
James
–
http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools
On 12/15/05, GJB [email protected] wrote:
If it’s available in early access,
I’ll buy that too!
Is that the plan? Seemed to work well for the Rails book. I’d
definitely buy a beta copy in PDF form (now) for a hard copy final
edition later.
–
Greg D.
Zend Certified Engineer
MySQL Core Certification
http://destiney.com/
That’s good news! On my wish list are: soap, xml/rpc, wsdl
Laurent
On 12/15/05, James B. [email protected] wrote:
Coding applications in Ruby without taking full advantage of what makes
Ruby R. is like walking up a hill backwards. You’ll get where you
want to go, but it could be so much nicer.A guide to libraries would be handy, but indeed many are ephemeral or in
flux, and learning a set of distinct APIs for one thing or another is no
substitute for a proper understanding of Ruby itself.It’s the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
Ruby programmer.
‘The Ruby Way’ handles metaprogramming and other advanced topics in a
very cursory manner. More than half of The Ruby Way was concerned with
Ruby’s libraries. But many of you seem to expect the second edition to
completely shift it’s focus. I don’t know how that’s going to happen
just by ripping out 100 pages and adding 250 pages considering all the
new stuff from that keyword soup is going in.
Aren’t there “Advanced Ruby” books in japanese that could be
translated? I’ve been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that “Ruby Internals” book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O’Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There’s a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
“Advanced Ruby” on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents) 
On 12/15/05, Gavri F. [email protected] wrote:
On 12/15/05, James B. [email protected] wrote:
Aren’t there “Advanced Ruby” books in japanese that could be
translated? I’ve been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that “Ruby Internals” book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O’Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There’s a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
“Advanced Ruby” on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)
Yep. 100% agreement.
Speaking of which, does anyone know where to get a copy of this
shipped to the U.S.?
Ruby Source Code Complete Explanation:
Amazon.co.jp won’t ship it, because it’s only sold via Amazon Shops.
–Wilson.
I can’t cover everything, but I want to cover the important and
interesting
stuff (as time and space permit). If you see it in the “keyword soup”
below, it’s under consideration. If you think I’ve forgotten something
important, please tell me in email.
One suggestion;
ncurses or equivalent (I hope I didn’t miss it in the soup or the
thread 
Raph
In article [email protected],
Takashi Sano [email protected] wrote:
My 2 yen for all the above.
To add the list, I would like to see a chapter or section on interface
- what is and how to create clean API in ruby.
that’s a great idea. And perhaps a section in that chapter on creating
plug-in architectures.
Phil
In article [email protected],
Xavier N. [email protected] wrote:
learning, practical issues are addressed, and you are exposed to
idiomatic Ruby. But I would expect it to evolve to explain “The Ruby
Way” of programming, so my vote goes there.Explaining libraries and toolkits is certainly useful, but a topic
for a different book in my opinion.
Exactly, or different little books like the Pragmatic folks are doing.
GUI
toolkits, for example, should be covered in those kinds of little books
(50 to
100 pages). “The Pocket Book of Ruby/(Tk|Qt|gtk|…)”
Phil
In article
[email protected],
Gavri F. [email protected] wrote:
It’s the difference between being a [application|library] scripter and a
translated? I’ve been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that “Ruby Internals” book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O’Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There’s a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
“Advanced Ruby” on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)
I guess I’m pushing for this shift of focus in The Ruby Way because
it’s
already about 1/2 way there. Again, I would suggest that any chapters
dealing
with specific libraries, GUI toolkits should be eliminated from the 2nd
ed.
and other chapters on advanced Ruby programming topics should be added.
I
think this will help TRW become an enduring classic.
We really need an advanced Ruby book now. There are cookbooks on the
horizon
and there are other Rails related titles as well as some introductory
texts,
but I haven’t heard about plans for an advanced book. I think The Ruby
Way
could be that book.
Phil
In article [email protected],
Doug H [email protected] wrote:
I’d recommend the exact opposite. If you ignore the libraries and GUI
toolkits, the book is virtually useless. Most people are using ruby to
develop applications, not to learn programming for programming’s
sake.
I’m not necessarily talking about ‘learning programming for
programming’s
sake’ (though, personally I see nothing wrong with that and I hope to
see a
good bit of that in there :). I’m talking about
learning advanced Ruby programming techniques that will help you develop
those
applications/APIs/Frameworks that you want to develop.
Phil
In article
[email protected],
Gavri F. [email protected] wrote:
Aren’t there “Advanced Ruby” books in japanese that could be
translated? I’ve been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that “Ruby Internals” book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O’Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There’s a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
“Advanced Ruby” on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)
Sorry for replying twice, but I wanted to get to this idea of
translating
Japanese books. In Japan they have lots of smaller books that cover the
libraries. They basically have a similar form factor to O’Reilly pocket
guides. I think that’s the way to cover libraries. One person may be
very
interested in GUI programming but has absolutely no interest in network
programming (and vice verse). Plus, as a library changes, the smaller
single-focus book will be able to keep up with the changes much more
easily.
Also, up till now there has been no Japanese Ruby book translated into
English (except for perahaps Ruby in a Nutshell). I suspect that there
are
good reasons for this.
Phil
On 12/15/05, Phil T. [email protected] wrote:
We really need an advanced Ruby book now.
Shifting the focus of the thread a little bit, but what would your
idea table of contents look like in an Advanced Ruby book?
Off the top of my head randomly ordered:
pth
On 12/16/05, Phil T. [email protected] wrote:
Sorry for replying twice, but I wanted to get to this idea of translating
Japanese books. In Japan they have lots of smaller books that cover the
libraries. They basically have a similar form factor to O’Reilly pocket
guides. I think that’s the way to cover libraries. One person may be very
interested in GUI programming but has absolutely no interest in network
programming (and vice verse). Plus, as a library changes, the smaller
single-focus book will be able to keep up with the changes much more easily.
The Pragmatic Programmers are doing it
http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page5.html
Also, up till now there has been no Japanese Ruby book translated into
English (except for perahaps Ruby in a Nutshell). I suspect that there are
good reasons for this.
I guess the good hackers can’t get interested in a translating job and
the not-so-good ones aren’t approached by publishers.
Please. Could somebody make the sacrifice and translate a few books for
us?
On 12/15/05, Patrick H. [email protected] wrote:
- Unit Testing
- Module
- Class
- Metaprogramming
- Domain Specific Languages
- Continuations
- Threads and Processes
- Extensions
- Embedding Ruby
I really like that list.
Gavri F. wrote:
completely shift it’s focus. I don’t know how that’s going to happen
just by ripping out 100 pages and adding 250 pages considering all the
new stuff from that keyword soup is going in.
I’m not arguing for Hal to change the direction of the book, just
suggesting that focusing on library usage for the sake of those looking
only to ship code is short-sighted.
I thought of The Ruby Way, 1st ed., as a better Ruby cookbook. It
showed how to do oft-needed tasks, but explained the hows and whys. If
certain of these tasks are best handled by an existing library, then so
be it. But the book helped me become a better Ruby programmer, not
merely better-versed in various tool APIs.
Aren’t there “Advanced Ruby” books in japanese that could be
translated? I’ve been hoping for a long time someone would translate
that “Ruby Internals” book and others like it. But all I see is
another cookbook from O’Reilly and a bunch of Rails books. There’s a
huge market here. I, for example, would buy any book that says
“Advanced Ruby” on the cover (without even bothering to open the book
and check out the contents)
I have high expectations for David Black’s forthcoming book. I’d be
hard pressed to name another person I’d like to see a Ruby book from.
James B.
–
http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
Ruby Code & Style - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools
This forum is not affiliated to the Ruby language, Ruby on Rails framework, nor any Ruby applications discussed here.
Sponsor our Newsletter | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Remote Ruby Jobs